Hon. Harvie Andre (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons):

Madam Speaker, the hon. member keeps making the false accusation that nothing was done. There were five individuals involved. They were dealt with. Two are no longer with the Armed Forces. Three were counselled. The matter was dealt with. I wonder why the hon. member feels it is reasonable to keep suggesting nothing was done when something was done.

An accusation has been made by a white supremacist on television that there are others. I suggested to her seatmate as I suggest to her: Provide some proof and I

June 16, 1993

guarantee the Canadian Armed Forces will follow up that evidence and take the necessary action.

Hon. Harvie Andre (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons):

Madam Speaker, the hon. member wants to have it both ways. He wants to suggest he has confidence in the military and he wants to have a public inquiry, a kind of witch-hunt, based on allegations for which there is no evidence.

We are talking about 70,000 uniformed personnel. Given the numbers involved, from time to time people do apply who really should not apply and should not be permitted in the armed forces. When they are discovered they are dealt with.

Oral Questions

The policy is there. It is very clear. The Minister of National Defence has stated that racism and racist attitudes are completely unacceptable in the Canadian forces. The Canadian forces do everything possible to ensure that policy direction is followed.

If the hon. member has evidence where in fact this is not happening he should produce that evidence. I assure him that it will be dealt with.

Hon. Harvie Andre (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons):

Madam Speaker, as I indicated in an answer to his colleague, the policy of the Armed Forces is well known and the retired rear admiral knows that.

He is questioning the competence of the Canadian Armed Forces to deal with undesirables in their ranks. They in fact are dealing with the undesirables in their ranks when they are discovered. They are dealing with it properly and in keeping with our traditions of justice, but they are dealing with it.

It is simply a false assertion to suggest that somehow there is a complicity, an acknowledgement or a wink-wink, that we do not mind if racists and white supremacists are infiltrating, to use that phrase, the Canadian Armed Forces. There is no evidence to support that accusation other than the comment on television by some white supremacist. When one thinks about it, it is in the interests of that kind of individual to spread that malicious, false information.

Hon. Harvie Andre (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons):

Madam Speaker, the hon. member on the one hand acknowledges the competence of the Canadian Armed Forces and then on the other hand says they are not competent to deal with this issue and there should be a public inquiry. He should make up his mind.

Of course they are competent and of course it is dealt with. In fact this incident involving these five particular personnel was dealt with and dealt with appropriately. Two were dismissed and three have been counselled. Should they behave in that way any more they will be cashiered. I do not know what the hon. member wants unless it is pre-trial hanging.

June 16, 1993

Oral Questions

Hon. Harvie Andre (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons):

Madam Speaker, the government has. I do not know why the hon. member makes the assertion that adequate policies are not in place. Adequate policies are in place.

Oral Questions

The fact that we have speed laws does not mean we are not going to have speeders from time to time. We have adequate policies in place. From time to time unfit people do apply for the Armed Forces. When their activities are determined or discovered they are asked to leave.

The Minister of National Defence said earlier and in fact she has asked, and regulations are being drafted, that questions of racist activities, attitudes and organizations be made a more formal part of the initial recruiting procedure, more so than it has now. This is being done now in keeping with the strictures of the Canadian charter of rights.

It is totally wrong for the member to suggest the policies are inadequate. The policies are adequate and when this behaviour is discovered it is dealt with.