Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Le ministfere des Pdcheries peut avoir une eertaine importance par suite du contrdle qui lui est donne des grandes pScheries des cdtes des deux oedans, importance qui a

* Sic *

Par l'action de Sir Wilfrid Laurier, le parti liberal a subi une humiliation, la province de Quebec, est bafouee, et M. Prefontaine, en ra-massant cette pitance que lui ont jet6e ses nouveaux eollSgues, a montrd qu'il n'a pas la moindre fiertS personnelle, ni le moindre sentiment de 1'honneur national.

My hon friend says the portfolio of Marine and Fisheries may have a certain importance, but it is only of minor importance. Then he goes on to say :

By the action of Sir Wilfrid Laurier, the Liberal party has been subjected to humiliation, the province of Quebec has been mocked, and Mr. Prdfontaine, in stooping to take the sop which his new colleagues have thrown to him, has shown not the slighest personal dignity nor the slightest feeling of national honour.

If this is not an appeal to the lowest prejudices of the people of the province of Quebec, I do not know what would be ; and this was said in the presence of the leader of the party, who now protests that he never appealed to the prejudices of the people of the province of Quebec. If there is anything that can stamp the conduct of the hon. gentleman, it is the language which I have just quoted, which was spoken in his presence, and to which he never took the slightest exception. This is the sort of warfare to which we have been subjected in the province of Quebec. I called upon my hon. friend the present Minister of Marine and Fisheries to take the portfolio. I was in poor health at the time ; I had to leave immediately for the south ; but I told him that in my opinion the portfolio of Marine and Fisheries ought to be reconstructed, so as to give it a more extended jurisdiction on matters purely nautical than it had at that time. I am not aware what my hon. friend said in his election ; he is here to speak for himself ; but as to the question put by my hon. friend from Jacques Cartier (Mr. Monk), since he was not in the House to hear the answer given a few days ago by my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works, and since his colleagues behind him have not taken him sufficiently into their confidence as to inform him, I will now tell him that all the appropriations asked for by the Minister of Public Works shall be expended by him.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

of the opposition then suggested an amendment to the effect that when the application was made for a change in the place where the trial was to be held, the application, should be supported by affidavit. I have considered the suggestion, and now move to add, after the word ' or ' in the third line of the first subsection, the following words :

' Upon cause shown, supported by affidavit.'

Section as amended, agreed to.

Bill, as amended, reported, read the third time, and passed.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Is the military and naval together ?

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

tion from my right hon. friend before this Bill goes to its second reading, and that is whether or not there have been any representations made by the governments of any of the provinces in regard to the proposed reduction in the representation of the provinces of Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island, and whether or not the opinion of the law officers of the Crown has been given in respect to the contention made by these provinces. My right hon. friend has suggested to-day that there is no possible question upon this subject. I understand that the law officers of the province of New Brunswick have given an exactly opposite opinion to that which my right hon. friend expresses today. I have not seen their opinion, I do not know of it except by mere report, but this is what I understand. I do not propose to-day, to make any argument upon the question but merely to bring to the attention of the House and of my right hon. friend what I understand the question is which has been presented from certain quarters in regard to the reduction in the representation of the provinces I have named. Section three of the British North America Act of 1867 provides :

It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, to declare by proclamation that, on and after a day therein appointed, not being more than six months after the passing of this Act, the provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick shall form and be one Dominion under the name of Canada ; and on and after that day those three provinces shall form and be one Dominion under that name accordingly.

Section four of the Act is as follows :

The subsequent provisions of this Act shall, unless it is otherwise expressed or implied] commence and have effect on and after the union, that is to say, on and after the day appointed for the union taking effect in the Queen's proclamation ; and in the same provisions, unless it is otherwise expressed or implied, the name Canada shall be taken to mean Canada as constituted under this Act.

Now, take the case of the section that immediately follows by way of illustration and what do you have ? Section five provides :

Canada shall be divided into four provinces, named Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

It is perfectly obvious that the word ' Canada, as used in teat section, implies and includes only the four provinces that have already been named. The next section to which I would invite the attention of my right hon. friend and of the House, is section thirty-seven, which declares as follows :

The House of Commons shall, subject to 'he provisions of this Act, consist of one hundred and eighty-one members, of whom eighty-two shall be elected for Ontario, sixty-five for Quebec, nineteen for Nova Scotia and fifteen for New Brunswick.

Then, the next section to which I would invite the attention of the House is section fifty-one, which reads as follows :

On the completion of the census in the year one thousand eight hundred and seventy-one, and of each subsequent decennial census, the representation of the four provinces shall be readjusted by such authority, in such a manner, and from such time as the parliament of Canada from time to time provides, subject and according to the following rules :-

(1) Quebec shall have the fixed number of sixty-five members ;

(2) There shall be assigned to each of the other provinces such a number of members as will bear the same proportion to the number of its population (ascertained at such census) as the number sixty-five bears to the number of the population of Quebec (so ascertained);

(3) In the computation of the number of members for a province a fractional part not exceeding one-half of the whole number requisite for entitling the province to a member shall be disregarded ; but a fractional part exceeding one-half of that number shall be equivalent to the whole number.

Fourth, and this is the important subsection :

(4) On any such readjustment the number of members for a province shall not be reduced unless the proportion which the number of the population of the province bore to the number of the aggregate population of Canada at the then last preceding readjustment of the number of members for the province as ascertained at the then latest census be diminished by one-twentieth part or upwards ;

(5) Such readjustment shall not take effect until the termination of the then existing parliament.

There is another section whicli is important to be considered in this connection. It is section 146, which provides as follows :

It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, on addresses from the Houses of the parliament of Canada, and from the Houses of the respective legislatures of the colonies or provinces of Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, and British Columbia, to admit those colonies or provinces, or any of them, into the union, and on address from the Houses of the parliament of Canada to admit Rupert's Land and the North-western territory, or either of them, into the union, on such terms and conditions in each case as are in the addresses expressed and as the Queen thinks fit to approve, subject to the provisions of this Act ; and the provisions of any Order in Council in that behalf shall have effect as if they had been enacted by the parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Now, it is important to observe in construing this Act, in the first place that it contemplates the incorporation of other colonies and provinces into the Dominion which are referred to in section 146 of the Act and it is important to pay particular attention to the language of section fifty-one, because section fifty-one says that:

Representation of the four provinces shall be readjusted by such authority

And it uses the word ' Canada,' in subsection 4. What the word ' Canada ' means has

been defined by section four of the Act. Canada in all the subsequent provisions of the Act means * Canada as constituted under this Act.'

What is the meaning of the expression ' as constituted under this Act ' ? Certainly it means, in section five, simply the. four provinces of Canada, because that section provides that:

Canada shall be divided into four provinces, named Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

The suggestion is that section fifty-one constituted a compact between the four provinces which was not to be disturbed by the admission of any other colonies, that it constituted a compact under which t l>roviuce of Quebec should never at any time have less than sixty-five members and under which the other provinces should never have a smaller number of members than the proportion they were entitled to according to the population of Quebec, and there was the further provision that their representation should at no time Be reduced unless the population had been diminished by one-twentieth part as compared with the total population of Canada.

I know that there are important provisions affecting this question in the shape of the addresses which were subsequently passed by the legislatures of the different provinces afterwards admitted, and which were passed by the parliament of Canada. And also I do not put out of my mind the legislation passed by this parliament and ratified-if that is the proper expression- by the imperial parliament, with regard to tbe admission of Manitoba and Rupert's Land. But the argument which I think may be fairly made is this : That if you once regard section 51 as a contract between these provinces, fixing as between themselves the terms upon which their representation shall be had in future, then you must find very clear language indeed within the addresses or within subsequent legislation such as I have spoken of, if you are to depart from that contract so established between the four provinces which constituted Canada in the first instance. I think, Mr. Speaker, that it is a fair subject for inquiry at the present time, as to whether or not any representations have been made with regard to this by any of the provinces; and whether the opinion of the law officers of the Crown has been had with regard to it. I think it is also right, that the opinion of the law officers here, if any lias been obtained, should be laid on the Table of the House and should be printed for the information of all hon. members who may desire to address themselves to that subject.

I may only say further in dealing with the matter at the present time, that my right hon. friend in introducing the measure which was brought before this House in 1S99 laid down the principle that any division of counties should take place by means

of a judicial commission. I will quote to my right lion, friend the language which he then used and I may say that I did not gather from his remarks to-day any special reason why the principle which was laid down then should he departed from now. The right lion, gentleman said :

Whenever a county is to be divided into ridings ; whenever a county which up to that time is entitled to one member becomes entitled to two or three members; the division should take place by judicial decision and authority. This is the second principle upon which we base the Bill that we introduce to the House now.

I suppose it is in view of the departure from that principle, that my right lion, friend speaks of the measure now introduced as a measure of a different character from that which he then laid down before the House. I do not know in what respect it differs. This measure is of course wider reaching in so far as, being based upon the results of the last census it gives a very much increased representation to Manitoba and the North-west Territories; but apart from that, the principle which is proper for one Act would seem proper for the other, although I do not wish in saying this to qualify in any respect what X have already said with regard to the proposal which the right hon. gentleman has made. I therefore will not take up the time of the House further at present, but I will ask my right hon. friend or the Minister of Justice to inform the House upon the matters which I thus briefly bring to their notice in order that we may be able to more intelligently discuss this Bill when it comes for its second reading.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

is sought in some of these measures was a condition precedent to any Supply being granted. I would suggest to him that it would only be fair to the House, and particularly to this side of the House who have to fill the role of critics, that we should have these measures before us at an early date. I see no reason why the papers with regard to the Alaskaif boundary should not have been laid on the Table on the first day the House met. The right hon. gentleman told us in the debate on the Address that they would be brought down at once, but they are not down yet. When they are brought down they should be printed and that will cause further delay. Then, the correspondence promised respecting negotiations with the colony of Newfoundland should be brought down at once and I would suggest that they should be printed and placed in the hands of members. If these things were done it would facilitate business. Then, the only information we have had up to the present time with regard to the colonial conference is that which some of us have been able to obtain from the blue-book issued by the imperial government. This Canadian government has given no information whatever as to the attitude of the Canadian representatives at the conference, and I can well believe that there is some information which the Canadian government desires to give to the House and to the country which is not contained in the imperial blue-book. In any case that blue-book is not available to all members of parliament as it should be, nor is it available for the public who want to know about the proceedings at that conference.

There is one matter which is touched upon very lightly indeed in the blue-book issued oy the imperial government, but which is or great importance to this country, and that is the correspondence and negotiations which took place between the representatives of this arid the imperial governments with regard to the embargo on our cattle. I had not the pleasure of being present in the House yesterday, but I understand that in the debate on this subject it was suggested that the matter had better be discussed after the papers are brought down. But why were not the papers placed on the Table the very first day of the session ? It was said, I understand, that the Postmaster General had had some negotiations with Mr. Hanbury. Why were those papers not on the Table when the session opened ? It is matters of this kind that tend to delay the business of the House, and in regard to which the government might make a very great improvement on the methods they have pursued in the past.

As to the particular date which has been selected by my hon. friend from Macdonald (Mr. Boyd), I dare say that it might suit some members very well and not suit others so well. There is probably no conceivable date which will absolutely suit every mem-

ber. I understand that the object my hon. friend has in view is more particularly to have the business of parliament begun at an earlier date in the year or at a late date in the previous year, so that we might not be kept here during the summer months on business which ought to be completed by the middle of March.