Mr. TOLMIE:

Just a minute. With regard to agriculture generally, I should like to ask the minister if there is any comparison between the wages paid to the very efficient men who comprise the Department of Agriculture and the salaries paid to other departmental officials. How does this department compare with the salaries paid in other departments? We have here a group of men who are carrying on a very important work. There is none more important anywhere in Canada than that which is being done by the Department of Agriculture, and it is done by men of very high qualifications. Our experimental farm system is one of the best to be found anywhere in the world. The splendid work which is being done by another official in rust

investigation will also be worth a great deal to the country. In my opinion the only way to maintain this department at a high standard is to pay good salaries and secure the very best men available. Has any such comparison been made?

Mr. TOLMIE:

They are as follows:

The first general test was conducted in 1926-46,174 cattle were tested, 3,643 reacted, or 7-9 per cent, at a compensation cost of $124,101.

The following general tests have since been conducted:

No. No. or Per- Compencattle reactors eentage sation1927

46,191 515 1-1 $20,4221928

46.480 351 0-76 14,6371929

50,603 188 0-37 8,1131932

66,746 407 0-6 12,879

The last general test of the cattle in this area was commenced last fall and up to February 24th last 36,186 cattle had been tested and 62 reactors found, or 0-17 per cent, compensation $2,019. There is, therefore, every prospect, with over half of the cattle tested, that the percentage of reactors this time will be less than one-half of one per cent.

The estimated total cost of each general test, including salaries of veterinary officers, tags, supplies and compensation, but not including livery, which is borne by the provincial government, is as follows:

Statement of Expenditures-British Columbia

(a) Indian Education:

Residential schools.. ..

Day schools

British Columbia special

Expended for fiscal year ended March 31, 1936 $328,720 91 60,922 17 10,911 40

Appropriated for fiscal year ended March 31,1937 $304,260 42 55,075 00 10,000 00

Totals

$400,554 48 $369,335 42

(b) Medical Services:

Parliamentary appropriation British Columbia special..

Expended for fiscal year ended March 31,1936 $186,020 63 55,297 35

Appropriated for fiscal year ended March 31,1937 $171,151 00 50,000 00

Estimated for fiscal year ended March 31,1938 $160,763 00 50,000 00

Totals

$221,151 00 $210,763 00

[Mr. Tolmie.i

nuypiy-m mes-/ naian Affairs

Memorandum Re Tuberculosis Problem Amongst Indians in British Columbia

The tuberculosis division of the provincial board of health, in attempting to control tuberculosis m British Columbia, has jurisdiction over the total population, except for the Indians. The Indian population comes under the control of the Indian department of the dominion government. Compared with the rest of the population of the province, the Indian death rate from tuberculosis shows a startling high rate. The following death rates speak

Year 1931 1932 Race Orientals Indians Whites Orientals Indians

Whites

1933 Orientals

Indians

Whites 1934 Orientals

Indians

Whites 1935 Orientals

Indians

Whites 1936 Orientals 9 mos. Indians

Whites Deaths Population Rate per 100,00090 49,344 182165 24,599 670387 620,320 6262 49,918 124189 24.743 763314 629,339 4966 50,308 131187 24,930 749291 636,753 4569 50,674 136216 25,161 858284 649.165 4368 50,958 133163 25,383 642355 658,659 5349 51,169 95148 25,615 577276 673,216 40

It has been noted also that 58*52 per cent of all deaths from tuberculosis amongst Indians were persons under 20 years of age, and that the registration of deaths of Indians for the year 1935 showed the 43*3 per cent of deceased persons were not attended by a doctor.

It does not seem a consistent policy to attempt to control the disease amongst one portion of the population, while it is allowed to run rampant amongst another group. The following table shows the number of Indians in the whole pf the Dominion of Canada, divided into the various provinces, and also divided into certain age groups.

Indian Population of Canada

Province Total Under 7 years 7 to 16 inc. 17 to 21 inc. 22 tc 65 Over 65 pop. M. F. M. F. M. F. M. F. M. F.Alberta .. 10,900 1,116 1,238 1,277 1,221 601 513 2,233 2,124 259 318B.C 23,598 2,148 2,260 2.762 2,755 1,023 1,024 5,213 4,803 807 803Manitoba . . 12,958 1,212 1,134 1,497 1,345 851 742 2,667 2,785 322 403N. Brunswick 1,734 165 173 208 193 92 89 401 333 39 41N.W. Terr. . 3,854 355 428 439 408 262 183 812 888 31 48N. Scotia .. 2,093 178 177 210 235 134 117 406 427 83 66Ontario .. .. 30,631 2,012 2,046 2,618 2,576 1,868 1,857 5,898 5,923 829 842P.E.I 224 21 27 26 29 5 10 46 48 7 5Quebec .. .. 13,281 1,334 1,252 1.406 1,441 753 732 2,940 2,696 350 377Sask 11.878 1,288 1,347 1,313 1,330 575 502 2,351 2,507 289 376Yukon Ter. . 1,359 121 173 134 150 87 87 273 239 47 48No details .. 4,162 Totals .. 116,672 9,950 10,255 11,890 ] 1,683 6,251 5,856 23,300 22,743 3,063 3,327

It will be seen from this that British Columbia has the second largest Indian population in Canada, but has a far greater ratio of Indians to the rest of the population than any other province in Canada. It would seem, therefore, that the dominion government should be spending a great deal more on tuberculosis in this province than in any other province in the dominion. Also, at this particular time, when a province is taking steps to control tuberculosis amongst the rest of the population, cooperation from the dominion government to coincidentally work amongst the Indians would seem the correct procedure. One would hesitate to say just exactly how* much danger the Indians are. relative to tuberculosis, to the other people of the province. However, knowing that tuberculosis is an infectious disease, we can at least state that there is a potential danger in having so much tuberculosis amongst the Indian population, and that this potential danger increases as the remaining population becomes more in contact with the Indians.

. Doctor McQuarrie of the Indian department has been doing everything that his limited finances allow him to do to help control this menace amongst the Indians. Several surveys have been made with the help of the tuberculosis division of the provincial board of health, of some of the Indian schools. In two schools a small preventorium was set up to house some of the infected Indian children. The tuberculosis division of the provincial board of health has offered to survey as many Indians as possible, charging the Indian Department with the cost of this However, surveys are not sufficient, and must be followed up. The

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Supply-Mines-Indian Affairs

logical means of doing this is by public health nurses, wlxo should go right into the Reserves and teach health to this population. This would be a far-sighted policy and would take some time to show actual effects, but it is felt it is only by this means that some real results could eventually be accomplished.

The Indians in residential schools throughout British Columbia are as follows:

School Boys Girls Total In ChargeAhousaht .... 32 29 61 United ChurchAlberni .... 70 55 125 United ChurchAlert Bay .... 128 110 238 Church of EnglandCariboo .... 51 71 122 Roman CatholicChristie .... 60 59 119 Roman CatholicCoqualeetza .... 148 113 261 United ChurchKamloops .... 166 168 344 Roman CatholicKitamaat .... 13 29 42 United ChurchKootenay .... 44 49 93 Roman CatholicKuper Island .... 51 53 104 Roman Catholic.... 89 98 187 Roman CatholicPort Simpson

St. George's

St. Mark's Mission 29 29 United Church.... 84 90 174 Church of England.... 77 82 159 Roman CatholicSechelt

53 40 93 Roman CatholicSquamish .... 27 30 57 Roman CatholicTotals

Schools Residential

1.093 1,105 2,198 No. Pupils . . 16 2,198Day schools .. 48 1,518Day schools-boys

723girls

795

School age: 7 to 16 years. Expenditure

Day schools

Residential schools

Stationery, etc

1,518

It will be seen from the above that the Indian Department has recognized the value of education. Admittedly, education also includes health. However, the health side needs to go to a great deal further than it has gone up to the present time, and it is felt that the dominion government could cooperate at the present time to aid this province in controlling the tuberculosis menace.

To be fair to the Indian department, it should also be recognized that there are certain so-called Indians that are classified as half-breeds, that are listed in our death rates as having died of tuberculosis under the Indian classification. These half-breeds do not come under the Indian department, despite the fact that they may be living on the Indian reserve. However, it will be admitted, that after the half-breeds are deducted, the Indians run a tuberculosis death rate between six to eight times that of the white population. In controlling the spread of tuberculosis, it is apparent to all that isolation must be carried_ out. The infected individual, who, through his positive sputum, may spread the disease, is isolated in an institution or in suitable quarters in the home where a public health nurse has the opportunity of supervising him. As far as the Indians are concerned, nothing of this type has so far been done. Where an individual can be isolated, real results can be accomplished. but in communities, such as Indian reserves, where no isolation is_ attempted, or a relatively small amount at least, it would seem that if something further is not done than is being done at the present time, in order to carry the principle of isolation to its full conclusion, the province should isolate all Indian reserves. This would be a very drastic and unnecessary step, but as the province has no jurisdiction over these Indians' health, it -would be the only recourse that they could take in order to be absolutely sure that they are safeguarding the health of the remaining part of the province. The tuberculosis division of the provincial board of health, therefore, earnestly requests that a sincere endeavour be made to interest the dominion government, through the Department of Indian Affairs, to make a substantial grant to their own officers here in the province, who are only too willing to work in cooperation with the tuberculosis division in this province. It is suggested that $150,000 a year be set aside by the Indian department for tuberculosis control in British Columbia. When one considers what the province of British Columbia, and other provinces are spending on the remainder of the population, the Whites, Orientals, etc., this does not seem a large amount of money to spend on the Indian population.

IMr. Tolmie.l

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Supply-Mines-Indian Affairs

Mr. TOLMIE:

I wish to say a few words in explanation of some points which our British Columbia dairymen would like me to bring to the attention of the Minister of Agriculture; I refer to the matter of improving the quality of our commercial cow. The cow that occupies a position in a dairy has to pay her way, and to be good enough to do that she must produce sufficient milk beyond her maintenance ration to give the farmer a reasonable profit. This dairying business is a 365-day job. Cows must be attended to twice a day during the whole year, and unless the cow is of such a nature that she will produce a profit for the dairyman, then of course she is no use to him. I do not know anything more hopeless than attempting to dairy- with cattle of poor quality. There is a way of finding out which is a good cow and which is a poor one; it is a matter of testing, a practice which has been followed since the end of last century in Denmark and many other countries in Europe, and on this American continent to a considerable extent; in fact to-day cows from the cow testing associations of Denmark amount to over 38 per cent of the dairy cows of that country, with the result that they have vastly increased their product of butter-fat per cow.

The dairyman having a herd of that kind, where cow testing is under way and is followed in the dairy, is enabled in the first place to improve his whole dairy by the elimination of the poor cows. He is enabled to select those cows that are sufficient producers to merit being placed in the breeding list so that he can produce more animals. Having reached that point, how is that man to carry on the gradual improvement of his herd? The only way to do it is by the introduction of good blood which will have to be selected from one of the pure bred herds in this country, and I think in Canada only a small number of our pure bred registered herd are under continual test. In Denmark it has been found necessary, so that these farmers can select proper sires to improve their herds,

to maintain their pure bred herds under test for the whole year; and it is strongly urged by dairymen in our country that this practice be seriously studied with a view of introducing it in Canada. They also desire to see the cow testing associations, which are now under the provincial government, taken hold of by the federal government either by controlling them completely or in such a way as to stimulate them and make them render better service to the herds of the country.

They also insist: (1) that all breeders

selling registered stock should maintain their entire herds perpetually on record; (2) they say that the slackness of qualifications demanded for the record of performance bulls is very marked and that some better method should be devised in this particular connection; (3) in the same way the slackness of qualification demanded for the record of bulls of advanced registration should be stressed; (4) it is felt by some of our prominent breeders that the sellers of registered stock should afford ample proof of the quality of their stock; (5) another matter that is strongly stressed is that owing to the great value of cow testing of our commercial dairy herds this should be made a national undertaking for the improvement of the average cow of the country, and should be supported by continued propaganda and efficient regulation.

Mr. TOLMIE:

I will not say it again.

Mr. TOLMIE:

The statement of the last speaker to the effect that August 15 is the opening day for duck shooting in the Yukon is an indication that a variety of dates should be set to suit different districts. The brant is one of our best game birds on the Pacific coast. Sportsmen out there would like to have the season open on January 1, if possible, and particularly would like to have February an open month. The brant, a small variety of goose, is not found inland, but is found on the eastern and western coasts. The people interested in the brant would like to have the dates set from January 1 to March 1, and would like to have the dates for ducks set at November 15 to January 31.

May I point out further that the birds are bred in Canada, in very much the same manner as are the sockeye salmon with which the hon, member for Comox-Alberni is so familiar. They travel down into the United States and to a great extent are shot there. I believe we ought always to see to it that we get our reasonable share of game birds.