Right Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate more deeply than words can express the great kindness which is shown to me to-day by the members of the House. Politics has its troubles, its trials and its strife, but it has its pleasant s\ide, and it is always a pleasure for me to think that amidst the hard fighting of politics-and I have had my share-I have always had the happy fortune of enjoying 1 leasant relations with the men who have differed from me as well as with those who iiave given me loyal support. I think it is quite possible to fight one's battles in an honourable way, to do the right thing for your own side believing you are doing it for the country, and at the same time win the respect and confidence even of those who differ from you. I shall not say any more ihan to express to my right hon. friend, the leader of the Opposition-with whom I have c ccasion once in a while to cross swords-to my hon. friend the leader of the Progressives, to my colleague from Nova Scotia, to my hon. friend also who last spoke representing another party, and last but not least to my right hon. friend the Prime Minister, how deep a pleasure their cvarm appreciation has given me. I thank them sincerely for their good words.

Right Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to be permitted to add a word. Busily engaged as I have been in other things, I have not had an opportunity to pay as much attention to this very important question of pensions for soldiers as I desire, and I do not wish to discuss anything that has happened as between the pension commissioners and others. But I ask permission to say a word or two from my personal experience, not so much as a minister, as a member of parliament. Many of my constituents had, as they thought, claims against the Pension board, and like other members, I received complaints. In every instance when I went to the Pension board I am satisfied I received from Colonel Thompson and his associates absolute justice. I say that in strict justice to them. I have the highest respect for Colonel Thompson, and while he may have erred in some of these matters, from my personal knowledge of him, representing as I did a number of people in my constituency who had complaints which they desired to have considered, I can say that he brought to the performance of his duty a high sense of responsibility that bore testimony to his eminent qualification for the position he fills.

Mr. FIELDING:

Suppose we admit, for the sake of argument, that it would have been wiser that these things should have been brought down in the Main Estimates. Having dealt with that point, let us now consider the merits of the question. If we need a deputy-minister in this country and if a man is capable of filling that office, a salary of $8,000 a year is not too much to pay him. If he has had long service added to his merit and strength of character, $8,000 is not too much. The trouble is, I think, that in our higher positions we do not pay men enough, and men are therefore being drawn away from the service of Canada and taken into private service because we cannot pay them enough.

I have a case in mind of a man I should very well like to have had in the service of my department. I could not keep him because the ordinary custom of the House would not allow me to give him a proper salary, but he went to another place and received twice as much as he could get here. We must pay some regard to the dignity of this office, tc the importance of the duties. But my hon. friend must have found in his day that it was exceedingly difficult to distinguish. The law fixes the salaries of nearly all the deputies at one figure. When I came into the department first the deputies, with one or two exceptions, received $3,200 a year. Their salaries have been advanced from time to time and, I think, with regard to the changes that have taken place, the increases in all lines, $8,000 is not too much to pay a deputy if he is competent and has had ten years' service. Length of service is entitled to some consideration. I do not know how you can discriminate. You cannot make the minister of any department believe that the position of his deputy is inferior to that of any other. We all magnify our offices a little. The minister magnifies his and the deputy magnifies his. I know there are differences; I know there are some departments which are much heavier than others, but it is by no means an easy thing to distinguish between them. As regards the increase, I do not know any deputy who is getting $8,000 a year who is not deserving of that amount if he is capable of filling the office.

Mr. FIELDING:

No; but is my right hon. friend challenging the accuracy of my statement? Now, I quoted the Montreal Gazette before on another matter and he was not pleased; he does not like the authority of the Montreal Gazette. But here is a quotation from that paper:

Supplementary estimates tabled in the House this evening by Sir Henry Drayton, Minister of Finance, totalled $23,950,000.

This is from the Montreal Gazette of May 21, 1921. Someone now hands me a copy of those Estimates; I did not have them at hand. I suppose my right hon. friend would like to say I imagined it. Here are the Estimates; but I am willing to take the Montreal Gazette's statement of the total without reading the document.

Mr. FIELDING:

I want to say to my right hon. friend in all seriousness that he

IMr. Fielding.]

should not recklessly plunge into these rash statements. He should endeavour to have some regard for his position as ex-Prime Minister of this country and as leader of a political party-a once great party.