Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I want to keep to the discrepancy which my hon. friend alleged. He said we had given false information, which had been disputed. I ,said we had not. There is no discrepancy -whatever. There are other sources of information. We proceeded to make up our minds also on the basis of the number of school districts, the number of post offices and the number of improvement districts. I have not seen the statements or the accuracy of the figures disputed ; different conclusions have been drawn from them, that may be and I will come to discuss that directly. At the present moment I want to say-and I want this fact clearly put before the House- that so far as the figures brought down are concerned, there has been no dispute between the members on the two sides of the House. We have drawn conclusions from different sources. For instance, I said yesterday and repeat to-day one source of information which we took in order to arrive

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at the conclusion to which we arrived, was the number of post offices and the number of school-houses. The reliability of such information was questioned ; it was claimed that it did not give a fair, accurate statement of the population, and as another source of information the member for Calgary (Mr. M. S. McCarthy) quoted figures of the trade of the north and soutli and also the number of chartered banks which had offices in the north and south. From such sources of information he was led to his own conclusion, but I repeat again that so far as the information we have given to the House is concerned, it has not been disputed.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

I thought my bon. friend would put this question and that his own friends would be sorry. The number does not compare at all ; it is altogether in favour of the south, because the south is better adapted to the production of cattle and not so well adapted for the production of cereals and other agricultural products. If my hon. friend wants to give votes to cattle, let him do so ; but if he wants to give votes to men, he will have to give the p rep ond era nee to the north. Where-ever you find a great many cattle, you do not find many men. The south is peculiarly a ranching and grazing country, and consequently has more cattle and less population than the north. I do not take the cattle into account, because they are not a fair indication of the population, whereas agricultural products are. All these things go to show that there are more people in the north than in the south.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

The surprise of my hon. friend from East Elgin (Mr. Ingram), who is generally fair, is my own surprise. I am very much astonished at the surprise he manifests. When he says that there is a serious discrepancy between the figures furnished by the government and those furnished by my hon. friend from St. Antoine, I take direct issue with him. I say there is no serious difference at all between the figures furnished to the House by myself and my colleague of the Interior ai#d those furnished by the hon. member for Calgary and the hon. member for St. Antoine. This is a very plain statement; let us verify it. I said yesterday that we based our information upon the number of votes recorded at the last Dominion election, the number of votes registered for the same, and the figures of population in the census of 1901. These were three, not all, of the sources of information upon which we proceeded. The number of votes re-248*

corded, as I obtained it from the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery, was 20,962. These figures- were not disputed. According to the statement given to me by my hon. friend from Calgary, for which I acknowledge his courtesy, the number of votes recorded in the last- election in the different constituencies of Alberta, with the exception of Peace River and Atkabaska, is put at 20,700, a difference of 262. Is there any very serious discrepancy there ? With regard to the number of votes registered in those constituencies, the figure I gave was 29,950, while the figure given to me by my hon. friend from Calgary was 30,077, a difference of 127. The addition in the one case was made by the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery from the books of the votation furnished to him; the same books were furnished to the hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House, and they made their own addition ; yet the results correspond, with only the small discrepancies I have mentioned. Another source of information is the population according to the census of 1901. ~ I gave the population for these various constituencies at 69,441. Up to the present moment I have not seen these figures challenged. Therefore, I say there is no differeuce or dispute as to the figures on which we base our division. I shall have further remarks to make on this subject, but for the moment I simply call the attention of my hon. friend from East Elgin to the fact that practically there is no difference between the figures given on one side and on the other.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Very well. I will say to my hon. friend then that by the census of 1901 there were in the 11 districts north of Red Deer 36,398 people and in the 31 districts south of Red Deer 31,034, showing a balance of population in favour of the north of 5,000 by the census of 1901.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

If we bad a census in 1905, we would rely on it and there would be no necessity -to look at these other facts. But we know there is an increased population since the census and how are we to proceed. The hon. gentleman says that upon the basis of the

distribution in 1902, there ought to he ten In the south and five in the north. I say that is not a correct contention. It may be a basis but you cannot depend on it alone; you must take other things into account. Taking it together -with the recorded votes, and taking it with the census, I have come to the conclusion that the distribution which has been made is fair to the south and to the north. I believe that distribution should warrant the approbation of everybody and I challenge the criticism of my hon. friend. If you take these figures which canimt be disputed, it shows that the distribution is fair.