Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member's statements are absolutely unfounded. Let him compare Canada's tax system with systems in most other industrialized countries and he will realize that our tax system is very fair, in comparison.

I would urge the Hon. Member to do his homework, and if he does not want to do his homework, he should get a better research service. He will find that the information he is getting is not accurate and does not reflect the real situation.

Once again, what the Hon. Member is saying with respect to the aged is totally inaccurate. Thanks to the measures we have taken, the elderly in Canada now have the assurance that they will be protected against poverty. There is no longer any reason why Canadians over 65 and living alone should be living below the poverty line, and that is thanks to the latest measures adopted by this Parliament.

As far as tax reform is concerned, the Hon. Member knows perfectly well that we tabled a broad range of budget measures designed to stimulate the economy, create jobs and provide for a fair distribution of the tax burden in this country. More specifically, we now have before Parliament a major piece of legislation which concerns an amendment to the Income Tax Act, legislation which the Opposition is reluctant to adopt. I suggest we start by adopting the reform proposals that are actually before the House before talking about reforms next week or in two years' time.

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member has been very selective in his comments on the effects of Government policies and budgets. I informed him that a few weeks ago, for instance, Parliament passed legislation under which the Government agreed to increase by $50 its monthly payments to the elderly who live alone. This will bring all Canadians 65 years old or over above the poverty line. It is an exceptional achievement, which compares very favourably with what has been done by other countries, because practically, we shall have eliminated poverty among the aged in Canada.

The Hon. Member knows perfectly well that in recent years, the percentage of Canadian families living in poverty in Canada has been reduced by more than half. This was possible thanks to a host of measures initiated and promoted by the Government of Canada and adopted by Parliament. I may remind him once again that the levels of payments for families living in poverty or on welfare are determined by the provincial governments, and the federal Government pays 50 per cent of whatever the provincial governments are prepared to give. The Hon. Member may have a centralist view of Canada's political structure. However, we live under a federal system, which means certain areas are the responsibility of the Government and the Parliament of Canada, and others fall under provincial jurisdiction, and we are trying to work together with the provinces, with all parties discharging their share of the responsibility. However, if the Hon. Member considers the economic situation in recent years, he will realize that this Government and the Liberal Party of Canada have done a great deal to help those who are most in need in this country, and that is our policy.

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, first of all I would like to remind my hon. friend that one of the latest pieces of legislation passed by this Parliament, at the urging of this Government, has been a measure to come to the aid of elderly single people, 75 per cent of whom were women, who still lived below the poverty level. Thanks to the measure

June 29, 1984

Oral Questions

which this Government has passed, there will be no single senior citizen in the future who will be living below the poverty level in this country. This is something which this Government has done, and this is a policy which we have pursued.

In the last 16 years, under the leadership of the current Prime Minister, we have been able to reduce very significantly the percentage of Canadians living at the poverty level. We have cut that percentage by more than half. That has been brought about because of the steps which have been taken by the Liberal Government during that particular period.

I want to point out to my friend that the social assistance programs are under provincial responsibility, although the federal Government pays 50 per cent of whatever the provinces decide to pay. Surely he knows that the level of social assistance is the responsibility of provincial Governments, under the Constitution. They determine the level of those payments. Once more, we are providing 50 per cent of those payments.

As far as interest rates are concerned, the Hon. Member knows that the policy of the Government is to follow the lowest possible interest rate policy. We are now in a situation where we have the same prime rate as in the United States, and we kept those rates below the U.S. level, thanks to our policies, for as long as we could. We will continue that policy of the lowest possible rates, taking into account the reality of our economic environment internationally.

Mr. Lalonde:

The fact is that the Conservatives cannot get together and agree on a strategy or policy to pass this Bill. The fact is that they are not ready to pass a measure which will be of great help to small and medium-sized businesses.

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member looks at one single program in the housing area. I invite him to look at the entire spectrum of our housing measures.