Mr. BARNARD:

I did not say that. He does not know anything about submarines; he is a mercantile marine captain.

Mr. BARNARD:

He is not.

Mr. BARNARD:

Well, six months, it is all the same. It was just as bad, as it turned out for my hon. friends opposite. Had they followed the policy of my hon. friends opposite, the chances are that the vessels would never have been obtained No definite reply having come on August 4, in the afternoon Sir Richard McBride said:

' I am going to take these submarines and I think Ottawa will back me up.' Accordingly he authorized the purchase and issued a provincial Government cheque. Lieutenant Jones went out; looked over the submarines; passed them; handed over the cheque and brought the submarines in. On the morning of August 5, the United States cruiser Milwaukee came out from the harbour of Bemerton into the strait of Juan de Fuca looking for these submarines with the idea of taking them back, but the cruiser was about two hours too late.

My hon. friend seems to think there is something wrong in regard to the question of price. This Mr. Patterson to whom I refer is the general manager of Moran's shipyard at Seattle. I do not know that the question of responsibility particularly interests the hon. gentleman, because, of course, when he begins to cast insinuations, the responsibility of the person .against whom he casts them does not seem to worry him very much. I would like, however, to state for the benefit of other hon. members that Mr. Patterson is a responsible man, a man of high honour and standing in the city of Seattle. In the corres-

pondence on the subject matter of this purchase, I find a letter from oir Richard McBride in which he speaks as follows in regard to Captain Logan:

His connection with the purchase of the submarines at Seattle is quite easily explained. Through his business relations with ship owners and builders on the coast he ascertained that there were two completed submarines in the shipyard of the Seattle Construction and Dry-dock Company, built for the Chilean Government but for which that Government could not pay. He reported to me and X took upon myself the responsibility of asking him to examine them to undertake the negotiations for their purchase. War was about to be declared and there was not a moment to lose and not another qualified man available. The moral effect of the quick action necessary was in itself sufficient to justify what X did. I turned over to the construction company a certified cheque of the Government for over a million dollars, confident that the federal authorities would recognize the wisdom of the transaction and reimburse the provincial treasury, which they very readily did.

If my hon. friend were to travel to either the city of Victoria or the city of Vancouver, where both Captain Logan anu Sir Richard McBride are pretty well-known, and make the insinuations against them that has made in this House, he would find he would meet with more than a cold reception. For my own part, my connection with this transaction was very small; but small as it was, it has been and will be a matter of great gratification to me that I was able to be present when the transaction was entered into. When the hon. gentleman chooses to make such Insinuations against Sir Richard McBride, I simply wish to hurl them back in his face and to tell him if he ever, during the whole, course of his career, does such a patriotic action, he will stand a good deal higher in the estimation of the people of Canada than he does at the present time.

Mr. G. H. BARNARD (Victoria, B.C.):

I regret that I was not in the House before 6 o'clock when the hon. member for St. John (Mr. Pugsley) opened the debate upon this question. I have, however, had an opportunity of perusing the " Hansard " notes of what he said with reference to the purchase of the submarines in question. As far as I recollect he made two objections to that purchase: the first as to quality, the second as to price. I should not have intervened in this debate had it not been for the fact that I may possibly give my hon. friend some information in regard to the purchase of these boats which will not be found in the papers-possibly information that he does not want to get. Before doing so I just wish to say to him that I do not think his friends on the Pacific coast will feel grateful to him for the motion he has made to-day and his remarks in support of it. The burden of his complaint is that the submarines are no good; that they were rejected by the Chilian Government because they were obsolete; that one of them-I am speaking from my recollection of the " Hansard " notes-has been in dry dock ever since it was purchased and has been absolutely useless.

Mr. BARNARD:

Did the hon. gentleman hear the Prime Minister read the cheque by which Sir Richard McBride paid over $1,150,000 direct to the contractors?