William Stewart LOGGIE

LOGGIE, William Stewart

Personal Data

Party
Unionist
Constituency
Northumberland (New Brunswick)
Birth Date
August 10, 1850
Deceased Date
March 14, 1944
Website
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._S._Loggie
PARLINFO
http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=65b95af4-7627-444a-9989-c8b3033301d0&Language=E&Section=ALL
Profession
company head, manufacturer, merchant

Parliamentary Career

November 3, 1904 - September 17, 1908
LIB
  Northumberland (New Brunswick)
October 26, 1908 - July 29, 1911
LIB
  Northumberland (New Brunswick)
September 21, 1911 - October 6, 1917
LIB
  Northumberland (New Brunswick)
December 17, 1917 - October 4, 1921
UNION
  Northumberland (New Brunswick)

Most Recent Speeches (Page 140 of 141)


April 10, 1908

Mr. LOGGIE.

I congratulate my hon. friend on having goods that commend themselves over such a large territory. Now, I have referred to a few items that are charged to capital account comparing the last five years of the Conservative regime with ten years of Liberal rule. I would like to refer also to certain items charged to consolidated account. In 1896, the expenditure on consolidated fund account was $36,0000,000 but, under the Liberal administration, in 1906, the expenditure was $67,000,000-an increase of nearly 100 per cent. All this has been paid out of the ordinary revenue of the country. Had these revenues not been available, either the necessary public works could not have been overtaken, or we should have had to borrow money to provide them. The following figures will give a comparison of the expenditure under Conservative and Liberal rule :-

1896. 1906.

Fisheries $427,250 $968,702Agriculture

210,877 603,812Immigration

120,199 842,668Quarantine

95,247 624,758

Lighthouse and coast service 466,057 2,530,307

1896. 1906.

Ship subsidies $ 534,916 $1,227,560

Ocean and river service .. 181,451 1,013,682

Mounted Police 533,014' 1,004,079

Militia

1,136,713 4,294,124Post Office

3,665,011 4,921,577Railways

3,826,225 8,779,677Public Works

1,229,768 7,484,715Provinces

4,235,661 6,726,372Inspection of staples.. .. 2,921 109,939Trade and Commerce .. .. 9,462 63,625

I have not given all the figures for the $67,000,000 of expenditure, but this group represents a total of about $41,000,000 as spent by the Liberal administration as against about $16,000,000 spent by the Conservative administration. This table I think indicates growth and prosperity during the past decade, each department of the public service requiring-now note the word 'requiring' because of the prosperity of the country-requiring an expenditure on consolidated account, no borrowing. I have indicated to you that $5,000,000 had to be borrowed to pay on consolidated account during the last five years of the Conservative administration. Here in the group I have named, there was $41,000,000 spent, and not a dollar borrowed. Surely the government and the country are to be congratulated. We find, in referring to this matter again, that on the fisheries service we have expended $550,000 more in 1906 than the Conservatives did. You will understand that that means the fostering and care of our fisheries, and I think the country is to be congratulated in that we had the money and were able to take care of those services that devolved upon us. Then again in agriculture, we have expended $400,000 more than they did ten years ago, and we know as a matter of fact that agricultural interests have prospered wonderfully. Then again on immigration, we find that $750,000 more has been expended in 1906 than in 1896. We all know the wonderful development that has taken place in that regard, 300,000 immigrants or thereabouts coming into Canada during the past year. Then we find that on lighthouses and coast service we expended in 1906, $2,000,000 more than they did ten years previously. What benefit have we received from that? We know, as a matter of fact, that our coast line has improved lighthouses, that our buoy service is improved. In place of the old fashioned service we have gas lighted buoys, as a rule, and the fog alarm service has been very much improved.

Then ship subsidies is another matter worth noting. We are now spending $700,000 a year more than the Conservatives spent ten years ago. This is a very important service. We know that our transportation service and mail service are in-dispensible and have been greatly improved. We have now a direct service to South Africa, to Mexico and other ports, and these aids to our industries will enable them to reach new markets. And last, but not least, we

have a direct through service to France, which we think will largely aid in the development of Canadian industries. Then we have another item ; we find that for ocean and river service $SOO,000 more is expended in 1906 than in 1896, and what does that mean ? You know, Mr. Speaker, that we have a long coast line, and we find that railways and aids to steamboat companies afford transportation facilities to localities that would have no other means of bringing their products to market. Then we have the mounted police. We have expended $500,000 more on that service, and I am sure we can only speak in terms of laudation of the work performed by our mounted police. Then we have $3,100,000 extra expended on the militia. We know that this is a very important service. Of course, it is much more expensive because we have taken over the permanent force, and we have had to add to the expenditure some $5,000,000. We must expect to spend more money on our militia if we are to become a great country. We are only in our youth yet, and if we are to broaden out and take our place amongst the nations of the world we must spend more money on that department.

Then we have the Post Office Department, and 1 am sure we can only speak in words of praise of the hon. gentleman who presides over that department, and of his predecessors as well. In 1906 we expended $1,300,000 more than the Conservatives did in 1896, and with what result? We find that during the interim we have reduced the postal rate about 50 per cent. We have done more than that; we have turned deficits into surpluses, and surely we can congratulate the country over the management of the Post Office Department. Then as to the Railway Department. We find that in 1906 we expended $5,000,000 more than the Conservatives did in 1896. We find that during this time the railway earnings have more than doubled. Railway earnings have increased in a greater ratio than has capital account. Not only have earnings increased more than capital account, but the mileage has increased more than capital account as well. So we find this department in a very satisfactory condition. We find that we have spent $6,000,000 on Public Works. I mean the ordinary small recurring public works ; this is $3,000,000 more than in 1906 than in 1896. And who will say that a town here and a town there with

2,000, 3,000 and 4,000 inhabitants, does not need a new post office? Would the hon. gentleman tell me that this money is not wisely spent? A man that is in business must erect his store. The money is locked up in it, it is true, but it is decidedly in the interest of the business, and it is just . as much in the interest of this great country that its population should have proper public buildings in every town where there is sufficient population.

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April 10, 1908

Mr. LOGGIE.

Yes, after seven years. And we shall have expended probably $100,000,000 on this great undertaking. And certainly the country is to be congratulated that its credit is in so favourable a condition that we are able to go on with such an undertaking. Not only shall we receive benefit in the way of transportation by the construction of this road, but we believe there will be opened up large areas of land fit for settlement and agriculture, settlement which will add to our strength and help to increase our home industries. My hon. friend from Colchester (Mr. Stanfield), for instance, will find that his goods will find their way into the northern part of Ontario and Quebec.

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April 10, 1908

Mr. DOGGIE.

That works it out exactly correct. I told you that I included the $19,000,000 in the $182,000,000 which makes it exactly correct. We expended on capital account from 1897 to 1907. $84,000,000 and Mr. DOGGIE.

did not add practically one cent to the net debt. Here is the point I want hon. gentlemen particularly to note. During this period, we reduced the rate of customs duty 13-86 per cent and the per capita debt 15-7 per cent. I think that the country deserves to be congratulated on this very favourable showing to a decade to which I have refer-ed. It shows that the words of my honoured leader, which were quoted by the hon. member for North Toronto (Mr. Foster), have been fulfilled. These words were :

We shall be in power before long, and when in power I promise you such an era of prosperity that it will not require statisticians to prove it. You will have it in your pocket.

It seems to me that the fact that this large amount of money could have been expended on necessary public works without our adding to the debt of the country to any appreciable amount, is an evidence of this great prosperity which the right hon. the First Minister promised.

I have pointed out to you that the Conservative party, during the last five years they were in power, went in debt to the extent of 334 per cent or thereabouts more than they paid out on capital account altogether. If the expenditures which the present administration have overtaken had been overtaken by the Conservative government in the same ratio, they would have added to the debt no less a sum than $112,000,000. That is, we have expended $84,000,000 on capital account without borrowing money, and, if you add one-third to that, you get $112,000,000. So, had they made the same expenditures with the same proportion of revenue, they would have had to spend all their revenues and borrow $112,000,000 besides'. If it were necessary, as I say it was-and there has not been any question about the necessity of expenditures on capital account-to spend this large sum of money and run the country into debt to the amount of $112,000,000 besides, should we feel like going into debt for another $100,000,000 to build the Transcontinental Railway ? I think the credit of the country would not have stood as high as it does if such had been the case. But we echo the words of the Minister of Customs (Mr. Paterson) when he said that we glory in the fact that we had this money to make these expenditures without adding to the debt. Thus we are in a position to go on with this great and laudable undertaking, the building of the Transcontinental Railway. I believe that when we are spending so large a sum of money on an undertaking like the Transcontinental, the proper businesslike way is to borrow money on the credit of the country instead of endeavouring to meet so large and such an expenditure out of ordinary revenue.

Now, let me deal for a moment with the net debt. My hon. friend from Dorchester 1 (Mr. Morin) tells us that in 1896 the debt

<5565

was $258,000,000, which is right enough, In 1906 the net debt was $267,000,000. In 1907 it was reduced to $263,000,000. So, we find that the net debt has been increased by nearly $5,000,000 over 1896. But we must not forget that a considerable sum of money has been expended on the Transcontinental Railway. As a result of the operations of the year just ended, we shall probably have increased our net debt by $17,000,000 as compared with 1896. But, as an offset to that, we find that we have expended no less than $26,000,000 on the Transcontinental. And this is an undertaking that we think is a valuable asset to the country. We know as a matter of fact that, after a certain number of years, we are to receive a rental equal to 3 per cent of the cost of the railway.

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April 10, 1908

Mr. LOGGIE.

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April 10, 1908

Mr. LOGGIE.

Well, we will talk about New Brunswick too. In the province of Nova Scotia, as compared with five years ago, there is an increase of $5,500,000 in the produce of the smelting works. Then. I think we can very well refer to the increase in the value of the fisheries as well as to the increase in the value of our timber exportation. It would be fair and reasonable to refer to the growth and prosperity of the export trade through the maritime ports. I refer particularly to the port of St. John, and as far as that shipping port is concerned we know that during the last decade it has bounded from nothing until to-day it is a very important shipping centre outwards for the trade of the prairie fields of Canada. While I am on my feet I want to say a word in reference to my own province. Not only are we going ahead in the lumbering and fishing industries, but we have recently discovered that we have a country rich in minerals. In the county represented by my hon. friend (Mr. Tur-geon) there has recently been discovered one of the most valuable iron deposits perhaps in Canada. This has been purchased by the Drummonds, these mines will be developed and will, I think, add much to the material wealth of our province.

I wish to refer briefly to the transportation question as it affects the maritime provinces, particularly the Intercolonial. This question of transportation is a burning one all over the country. Hon. gentlemen will remember that a few years ago complaints were made that the Canadian Pacific Railway were not building branches fast enough in the west and that the farmers were obliged to haul grain twenty or thirty miles. It was considered a great hardship that it should cost 10 or 15 cents a bushel to haul grain to a station to ship it. I sympathize with these farmers; I realize that it is a hardship to be so situated. But we ought not to forget that the older provinces are enduring the very same hardship to-day. We must realize that if the Intercolonial Railway is to be a common carrier for the people of the maritime provinces, that railway owes a duty to the territory adjacent to that trunk line. It must not be forgotten that practically every branch line which serves as a feeder to the Grand Trunk Railway or the Canadian Pacific Railway has been taken over by these great corporations and

made a part of the system, thus feeding the trunk line and aiding the industries situated along the branch lines. It is not possible to manage these branch lines as profitably independent of the trunk line. The Intercolonial Bailway with its trunk line between Riviere du Loup and Moncton has practically a monopoly of that whole country and it is not fair to'leave the adjacent territory without proper facilities nor is it fair to expect private corporations to build branch lines, because the branch lines could not live, the population is not sufficiently large to make them paying ventures, they would not receive a sufficient return on their short haul on freight which they would have to hand over to the Intercolonial Railway which would have the long haul. It is the duty of the government and of the people of Canada, the owners of the Intercolonial Railway, to see that the territory adjacent to the Intercolonial Railway has proper railway facilities and that the industries of that locality are not retarded because of want of transportation. Simply as an illustration, I would point out that even in my own county there is a section of country between Indian town, where the railway terminates, and Red Bank, a large and thriving village, without any railway facilities, practically without any transportation facilities whatever We are trying to have a steamboat service inaugurated there but in order to do that we shall require some assistance. That section between these two places should have a railway in the interest of the country and I would ask that this matter should receive the favourable attention of the Minister of Railways and of the government. We have also a large and rich section along the Mira-michi between Newcastle and Tabusintae that deserves the consideration of the people of Canada, the owners of the trunk line of the Intercolonial Railway because they have a monopoly of transportation there and it is their duty to see that the people there do not suffer. ' They are suffering to-day because of lack of transportation facilities to enable them to send their commodities to the markets of the world on as advantageous terms as other sections of Canada. The maritime provinces are an old section and deserve the attention of the government even as much as the western provinces, and I ask on behalf of the maritime provinces, and particularly the sections I have indicated where the Intercolonial Railway is the only means of transportation, that branch lines should be constructed as a part of the Intercolonial Railway system. Where there is another railway, the situation is not so bad, as one railway will compete with another; but where there is only the one line and that owned by the government, it is the duty of the government to provide efficient transportation facilities. We in the maritime provinces never say a word about the cost of the canal system in Ontario and Quebec; that is provided in the interest of the countrv at large. The Intercolonial Rail-Mr. LOGGIE.

way is a part of the great scheme of confederation, it is a link in the chain that binds us together, and as such, if it is to perform its mission, it ought to provide for the maintenance of branch lines. As a matter of fact a portion of one branch line has been lying all winter unoperated and to-day, although there is hardly any snow on the ground, carload after carload of freight has to be teamed. Yet there is a railway there and the blockade exists simply because the railway has not the necessary equiqment. All that is required is equipment, with proper equipment there would be no trouble in keeping the rail open all winter. It is not fair and I bespeak in the interests of the maritime provinces the favourable consideration of this matter by the government.

I was deeply interested in an important subject which was referred to in the House the other day, the All-Red line, an imperial means of transportation. When the hon. member for Brandon (Mr. Sifton) was speaking, f was impressed with the difficulty of dealing with the present investments, in transportation, that is to say what is to be done with the transportation interests now operating. It occurred to me that if the great ocean lines or the corporations owning the ocean lines, could combine and form one great corporation to perform this all-red service, all infringement on existing vested interests would be obviated. The question of hauling the traffic on Canadian soil would also require consideration. Possibly some arrangement might be made between the transcontinental railways so that the traffic would be handled by the Intercolonial Railway between Halifax and the nearest point on a transcontinental railway. The Intercolonial Railway, I presume, would be double-tracked between Moncton and Halifax. For instance, at Moncton they would hand over to the Grand Trunk Pacific its share of the traffic; at St. John they would hand over to the Canadian Pacific Railway its share, and they would hand over to the Canadian Northern its share wherever its nearest point would be; and if one road got more than its share according to its mileage, there might be a division made. In that way, if we could get our capitalists of the Canadian Pacific Railway, the Allan line and the Dominion line to form one great corporation, we might have its financial interests largely in Canada, and thus make Canada the centre of this great project. These are matters which ran through my mind while the hon. member for Brandon was presenting his case.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to close with a word or two of congratulation to the country, particularly on the fact that we have at the head of affairs a gentleman of the statesmanlike qualities of the Prime Minister. It was his duty, as well as his pleasure, I am sure, to represent this country on a recent occasion at a conference in London. We all followed with interest his re-

marks on that occasion. Bearing them in mind, we can see him as it were with the main sheet of the ship in his hand rounding a big boulder at the entrance to the conference, while inside we see dropped in the placid waters of the conference the anchor bearing the title " Imperial Conference." We certainly should feel proud that we have at the head of this young and rising nation a gentleman of the capacity of the Prime Minister. Then we gave him a royal welcome back to his own country. He is not long back, however, when we hear a flurry out on the western coast-the Japanese are overflowing our country! Listen to the prudent words of the leader of this young nation when he says : ' Patience; we must respect treaty rights ; the rights of the western provinces will be conserved, but we must not jeopardize the interests of our country as a whole.'. I do not quote the exact words, but they were words to that effect; and we know what a happy issue they had. To-day we have practically what the Prime Minister said would come- the rights of the Pacific province have been conserved and yet the integrity of the treaty has been maintained. Then we find him at the neighbouring industrial center of Canada, Toronto, and what does he say there of the proposed All-Bed line? He said he would not dictate to the mother of parliaments, perhaps that would not be becoming but he would remind the Imperial authorities that they had subsidized a service, very much like the proposed fast Atlantic service, from the motherland to a foreign port, and perhaps it would not be too much to ask them to do the same for their own kith and kin. It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that these were the words of a statesman, and we all congratulate ourselves and the country at large that at the head of the affairs of this young and thriving country we have an hon. gentleman who can thus wisely guide the ship of state, so that we realize in our own pockets the fulfilment of what he said down in Halifax, as quoted by the hon. member for North Toronto. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, and hon. gentlemen, for the attention given to me in my first attempt to say a word on the financial conditions of the country.

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