Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister of Transport):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to say just a word in direct reply to what the hon. gentleman has said. I do not think there is any substance in the argument he used about the words "other measures", but if there is it would clearly indicate that his amendment is redundant. If "other measures" would include this measure, then it is quite unnecessary to put it in. But of course it is quite obvious that it does not have that significance at all and that what the hon. gentleman is seeking to do by his amendment is to do indirectly what he has no right whatever to do directly. There is no motion and no notice of motion on the order paper of this house-

Mr. Pickersgill:

As a result of a notice I received, I assume that what is to be discussed is not the abandonment of any specific line, but rather the general procedures to be followed in dealing with the applications. For that reason I should not think the results of any study would be relevant to the purposes of the conference.

Mr. Pickersgill:

Hear, hear.

Mr. Pickersgill:

He knows he can never win an election and sit on this side of the house, and he is trying indirectly to substitute himself for the government-and to substitute his motion for the message from the crown that would have to precede any such measure which the government alone, under our parliamentary system, has the right to bring forward.

Not only is the hon. member doing that but he is seeking by a procedural motion to direct this house in advance that it must pass this bill which we have never seen and whose contents we do not know anything about. The hon. member is seeking to say that the Senate must also pass this bill because he says we are not to adjourn until the bill is ready for royal assent.

I suggest that not only is the hon. member vastly expanding the motion but he is seeking to do indirectly what he knows perfectly well, as a private member who has never been able to get enough confidence in this country to sit on this side of the house, he could never do directly.

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister of Transport):

Mr. Speaker, it is not only the hon. gentleman's constituents who would like to be allowed to sleep in peace. About once a month I get a telephone call at about three o'clock in the morning from some irate person in the hon. gentleman's constituency asking why jets are allowed to land at Dorval after midnight. I do not like having my sleep disturbed any more than the people there do.

A very serious effort is being made to prevent, to the greatest possible extent, these landings and takings-off after midnight. There have been a large number of landings and takings-off recently because of the inordinately large amount of air traffic. It is difficult not to allow planes to land if they have been delayed, and if they land and we say they cannot take off until morning we would have a great many irate passengers who are not able to continue on to their destinations.

July 7, 1S67

It is a very complicated problem to solve. We are doing everything we can to keep it down to the minimum. However, it does not seem very advisable this year to detain planes as a punishment, because I am afraid those who would be punished would not be the air lines but the passengers, whose reservations would thereby have no validity.