Hon. Tom Hockin (Minister for Science and Minister of State (Small Businesses and Tourism)):

Madam Speaker, my hon. friend knows, but he does not want the House to be reminded of it, that this government in its stewardship of the public purse has had to cut back a number of programs.

Certain programs have not been cut back at the same level as others. One is grants to provinces, to persons and to individuals. The other field is aboriginals. Another field of federal government spending that has not been cut back nearly as much is science and technology. Science and technology, if anything, has been indulged in the over-all priorities of this government and we are going to continue to do that.

Hon. Tom Hockin (Minister for Science and Minister of State (Small Businesses and Tourism)):

I thank my hon. friend for the compliment because when we brought in the National Centres of Excellence, his party and he in particular fought the program. They said it would be better to give the money to the granting councils and let them decide where this money should go-

Instead we said something very creative. We said that we want to identify the 15 most excellent research opportunities in Canada, link them up with industry, build these centres and make them strong. We put that program in place beginning in 1989 and it is now under review. The parliamentary committee has complimented it and feels the program is working well. It thinks some changes should be made.

We are doing a peer review as well. These are the people who are the real scientists in the field. People in industry are doing their review of this program. The Prime Minister is committed to this program which will remain permanent. Whether we can maintain the same level of funding or not is a difficult question. Government is having to cut back. We are inviting the provinces to participate more than they are. We are inviting industry to participate more than it is. We will soon see what the level of funding will be.

Hon. Tom Hockin (Minister for Science and Minister of State (Small Businesses and Tourism)):

Madam Speaker, the hon. member knows that under the previous Liberal government unemployment was just as high in Cape Breton as it is today. He also knows that unemployment in the early 1980s was higher than it is today.

He probably does not know, but he should, that there is a world-wide recession and even in the middle of the world-wide recession the government, with its trade framework legislation, has put in place record exports for this country which have created new jobs.

We have also put in place a context for small business where 82 per cent of all the new jobs are created. Last year we had 320,000 new jobs created through small business in the middle of a difficult period of economic growth world-wide.

These are the things the government is doing. These are the things that it is doing to give economic leadership. The hon. member is afraid not only to recognize this but he tries to denigrate it by making allegations.

May 14, 1993

Oral Questions

He knows we have had the best trade framework agreement of any government since Confederation. Ete knows that everything we have tried to do to decrease the deficit they have been against. He also knows that we have saved the taxpayer-

Mr. Hockin:

Madam Speaker, beside the cradles should be walls with stars and stripes on them, American barriers against Canadian exports, against Canadian investments that have been removed as a result of the free trade agreement, which has allowed us to have record exports every year into the U.S. It has given us a trade preference in the U.S. whereby we now have a $18 billion record export improvement as a result of the removal of American trade barriers.

Also there should be other walls with Mexican flags on them. Its 20 per cent tariffs, its quotas against Canada, are going to be removed through the free trade agreement to allow us to export and create jobs in Canada.

Hon. Tom Hockin (Minister for Science and Minister of State (Small Businesses and Tourism)):

Madam

Speaker, that is precisely why we are doing the NAFTA. It is in order to create jobs in Canada and give ourselves export opportunities in Mexico that we do not have today.

They have effective tariff rates of 20 per cent on telecommunications, for example. The other day I saw a figure that 8 per cent of Mexicans have telephones. In five years close to 40 per cent of Mexicans will own telephones. We would like to sell telephones to the Mexicans. We would like to make them in Canada as we do with all the switching apparatus.

What we are doing is removing Mexican quotas and tariffs so we can export into that country. Years ago we gave up our quotas and our tariffs against Mexico. Who would not negotiate a trade agreement with the country when its access to one country is just catching up with access that we have already given to them?