Mr. Gillespie:

Mr. Speaker, the legislation creating Petro-Canada gives it the right, as the hon. member has said, to import foreign crude into Canada. I am not sure if we are talking about the same act, but the hon. member nods and I gather that he was referring to the same one. If the hon. member would read that act he would see that the powers are there to import foreign crude into Canada. I believe that those

Energy Supplies

powers may increasingly be used. It will depend a great deal on the international situation and the degree to which the refiners in Canada establish a direct buying relationship with western hemisphere crude sources.

I did make it quite clear in my remarks before the committee that I did not see at the present time that it would be particularly useful to contemplate Petro-Canada-

Hon. Alastair Gillespie (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources and Minister of State for Science and Technology):

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 75C, I wish to advise the House that the representatives of parties have been unable to reach agreement under Standing Order 75A or 75B on the allocation of time on report stage and third reading of Bill C-42, an act to provide a means to conserve the supplies of energy within Canada during periods of national emergency caused by shortages or market disturbances affecting the national security and welfare and the economic stability of Canada.

Therefore, I wish to give notice that a minister will move, at the next sitting of the House, that not more than one additional day be allocated, if necessary, to each of the said stages of the said bill.

Mr. Gillespie:

-negotiating for all the oil-and I made reference to that in my remarks a few moments ago-from, let us say, Middle Eastern sources, because I believe that there is an advantage in being able to pool and therefore to hedge our bets with respect to a very unstable part of the world. I am not sure whether we are on exactly the same point, but I think it is quite clear that Petro-Canada does have substantial powers, that it can be directed by the minister to enter into the importing of crude for use in Canada and by Canadian refineries.

Mr. Gillespie:

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to debate the fine print with the hon. member. Perhaps this involves a legal opinion. I would draw his attention to the fact that under the heading "Objects, Powers and Duties," section 6(c) of the Petro-Canada Act reads as follows:

-(c) to import, produce, transport, distribute, refine and market hydrocarbons of all descriptions;-

I would underline the word "import". Section 7(1), which deals with powers, reads as follows:

The corporation may do such things as it deems expedient for or conducive to the furtherance of the objects of the corporation, within and outside Canada, and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, the corporation may,-

Then I would draw the attention of hon. members specifically to subsection (/):

-(f) enter into any arrangements with any government or authority that seem conducive to the attainment of the objects of the corporation and obtain from any such government or authority any rights, privileges and concessions, and carry out, exercise and comply with any such arrangements, rights, privileges and concessions;-

I think it is clear that there are very substantial powers vested in the corporation, but I would want to seek a legal opinion on whether the fine legal point that the hon. member makes is a valid one.

March 19, 1979

Energy Supplies

Mr. Gillespie:

Even if the industry were different in terms of Canadian control-and that is obviously some way off into the future, however one may wish that it was sooner rather than later-it does not necessarily follow that the decisions of those companies will always ensure that the risky, far off, and imaginative projects will be undertaken for Canada's good. I am referring to the high Arctic, and I am sure that hon. members realize that there will not be an immediate cash flow from the high Arctic. We know that the Panarctic people, those in the private sector and Canadian companies, have been-