Mr. MACLEAN.

Hear, hear.

Mr. MACLEAN.

I will tell you how to stop it, and I am going to appeal to history. The most significant thing that has happened in my time was the thing which Benjamin Disraeli accomplished not so many years ago in connection with the Suez canal. He made an arrangement with the bankers of the British government by which he had the necessary money placed at his disposal, and before anybody knew anything about it, the world woke up and learned that England owned the controlling shares of the Suez canal. That was a first-class investment, and one of the things resulting therefrom is that Egypt is to-day one of the most important and growing sections of the British Empire. I say that if we are alive to the danger which seems to overhang our country, this parliament, irrespective of party, will take the bull by the horns, and place Canada in a position, if necessary, to go on the stock

market and buy the control of these two great Canadian railroads. Here is the point : the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Grand Trunk, as owned and controlled to-day, actually antagonize our own country, our own ports, our own canals, our own river routes, our own fast Atlantic service-antagonize Canadian interests in every way. But if the state had control of these railways, they would be the complement of our canals, of the Intercolonial Railway, of our rivers and harbours, and they would be, what they are not now, national railways helping to build up this country.

Some hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House are disposed to make sport of this ; but I read only yesterday in an Ottawa paper that the Minister of Public Works (Hon. Mr. Tarte) proposes to extend the Intercolonial Railway across this continent so as to give the people of Canada some relief from the exorbitant rates charged by the Canadian Pacific Railway. I believe in that, if we cannot nationalize the Canadian Pacific ; but it will cost more to extend the Intercolonial across the continent to the other seaboard than it would to acquire today the control of the Canadian Pacific Railway. There is the present and immediate way of settling the transportation problem of this country ; there is the way to get a fast Atlantic service-to use the railways of Canada to build up our Atlantic ports ; and it can be done for less than $50,000,000. The country would not have to bear any more expense in connection with the bonds and the various investments of the railway than it bears to-day. It is the traffic that pays all these expenses. In fact, I believe, the capital could be converted to a 21 or 3 per cent basis instead of having to bear the rather high rates that prevail to-day. The country would benefit in that way and in a thousand other ways from such an action on our part. We should not for a single day longer allow the control of our railways, and it may be the control of our coal areas, to stand in danger of passing over to the capitalists of the United States. And there is something coming in the United States. I believe a revolution is imminent there. What is likely to happen was depicted the other day in a cartoon in a New York paper in which Uncle Sam was watching some boys-Morgan, Rockefeller and others-putting the railways into a bag, and he said to the boys. ' When you get them all into one bag, I intend to take them over.' That is the position of matters in the United States. There are great constitutional difficulties in the United States in the way of the government taking over the railways ; but in Canada all that is required is a resolution to be passed by this House, and the Minister of Finance (Hon. Mr. Fielding) ought to be able in twenty-four hours afterwards to make arrangements by cable in England to have the Mr. MACLEAN.

necessary money to buy the control of the railways. It is au easy thing for us to do. We have extended the Intercolonial Railway, and it is the best asset Canada has to-day. I am told the Minister of Railways (Hon. Mr. Blair) is in favour of extending the national railway. If he is, he is on good lines. The Intercolonial Railway must not end where it is to-day. The people have substantial grievances, which must be remedied, and the way to remedy them is to stop chartering railways and giving away to railway corporations the lands of the country.

Somebody is going to tell me that there will be corruption and maladministration attending this project. I would be prepared to pay a man like Mr. Hays, who is admitted to-day to be the first railway man in America, $100,000 a year, if necessary, to administer our railways absolutely for the benefit of the people and irrespective of party or political considerations ; and we can get such a man. Perhaps we could get three men to do the Work for a great deal less money. But what I am talking about is a serious present problem before the people of Canada, which may be forced upon their attention any day-a problem which must be solved, and to which immediate public attention should be directed; and we should have some statement from the government as to what they would do if they should wake up some morning and find that our two great Canadian railways had passed into the hands of that enormous syndicate in the United States which to-day controls nearly every mile of railway in that country, which controls every acre of coal lands, which controls the Standard Oil Company, which controls the iron output of the country, which control^ the banks. (Mr. Morgan is besides the greatest banker in the world to-day), and directing its energies against Canada and controlling our railways with the capital behind it, could wipe the name of Canada from off the face of the earth, and that is the only thing that could do it.

Mr. MACLEAN.

Even under your suggestion, Mr. Speaker, I can still raise the question, because it is a question of the most urgent importance to the people of Canada. I desire to bring before this House, and before the country, the great fact transpiring in the United States to-day as to the control of railways. The railway mileage of that country is now passing into the hands of a most powerful syndicate. This syndicate controls most of the railways of the United States, and there is a dread that within two or three weeks there will not be one line of railway in the neighbouring republic which will not be controlled by Mr. Rockefeller, Mr. Vanderbilt, Mr. Harri-man, Mr. Hill-whose name we hear a great deal of in Canada-and some others. These men have under their power now over $2,000,000,000 of railway capital, and not only that, but these same men control the banking institutions, they control the coal fields, they control the Standard Oil Company, and only last week they got control of the entire iron production of the United States. Last night there was a statement- and here is wheft the question comes home to Canada-in the Montreal Star

Mr. MACLEAN.

Perhaps the statement is reported as coming from a friend of hon. gentleman opposite. That statement is this :

It would not be very difficult for the powerful financial interests which Mr. Hill represents to secure a majority of the common stock of the great Canadian Pacific Railway.

Now, the point that I want to bring before the people of Canada and this House is this, that these men, who have obtained control of the railways of the United States, are in a position to-day to capture' the control of both the Grand Trunk Railway and the Canadian Pacific Railway. I can go further : I believe that tracers are out to-day after the stock of these two railways, in order that Messrs. Morgan, Rockefeller, and the men associated with them may, if they think it necessary, get the control of these two Canadian roads ; and I call the attention of the people of this country to this fact, that less than $50,000,000 put on the stock market to-day will secure the control of the

Canadian Pacific Railway. Did this country put all the money which it has put into the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Grand Trunk Railway in order to build railroads which might pass any day from the control of this country to the control of the United States ? What do we see happening at this moment ? These Canadian railroads, in connection with which the people of this country have spent so much money under reputed Canadian or English management, are to-day a menace to Canada. The Canadian Pacific Railway and the Grand Trunk Railway have announced that they intend to shape their policies to build up American cities, if necessary, at the expense of Cana,-dian cities. There is the great question before the people of this country. We were discussing platitudes yesterday in this House, but here is a definite question. The Grand Trunk to-day is antagonizing the city of Montreal, and I believe the Canadian Pacific is antagonizing the city of St. John. These two railroads tell the people of Canada, openly and above board, that they have no consideration for Canadian interests, but will, if it is in their own interests, direct their traffic to the United States. If that is the case to-day, how much worse will it be when Messrs. Morgan and Rockefeller and their associates go on the stock market and secure control of the Grand Trunk and the Canadian Pacific Railway ? I am not dealing in a generality, but am speaking of something that might happen to-morrow. My hon. friend from West Toronto (Mr. Osier) occupies a seat on the board of directors of the Canadian Pacific Railway, and he and Mr. Shaughnessy might attend a board meeting to-morrow and have an intimation made to them that the Canadian Pacific Railway had passed from the control of Canadians to the control of these gentlemen in New York.

Mr. MACLEAN.

I am against a onesided one.