Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I do not think

the minister piade it plain whether or not the association accepted his offer of co-operation. If there is any document to that effect it might be well to have it.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I know, but the mining country of northern Ontario is being absolutely served now by public owned railroads, either the Canadian National which goes through Sudbury and all that mining district, or the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway, which goes through Cobalt, Kirkland lake, up to Timmins, and through all the great gold fields in the province. We are only beginning to develop the mining camps in Ontario; they are growing every day. Gowganda is coming back, and all we want to do is to keep that country for the two publicly owned lines. I believe these two lines will eventually co-operate in some way to cover the whole of that country. If we have made a success of the Canadian National covering the whole continent, cannot we do

better by building our own railway into this territory, into the mining fields of Ontario and Quebec, of Manitoba and the whole west? We are supplying these fields to-day either by the National lines or the provincially owned lines of Ontario, and the people are getting extensions just as fast as they are warranted. I am convinced the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario will build this summer from a terminal called Elk Lake into the Gowganda mining camp, on to Leonard and Shining Tree, and from there to Westree, where they will connect up with the Transcontinental. We do not want any more of these private companies. We have had enough of them. We have had to take up the mess they left, and pay for it. We have got far more miles of railway than we want in this country, simply because we have been over-railroaded and over-exploited by private individuals who came to. parliament and got- charters. So I intend to move, Mr. Chairman, that this bill be sent back to the committee and in that way taken off the order paper. We shall then see w'hat the developments will be in the Red Lake district. If it is shown that there is necessity for this railway it will be built; I have no doubt the Canadian National will build it if the occasion arises. In the meantime the aeroplane service will supply the necessities of that camp in every way. It is already giving a mail and express service, and taking in passengers. They can go in very quickly by aeroplane, whereas t'he journey now takes from two to three days by railway and waterways. I am also told that the Ontario government now have before them plans for the building of a roadway from Hudson right into Red lake. In the meantime let us stop this over-exploitation of railway charters by private individuals. Accordingly I move that we refer this bill back to the committee for further consideration, and that will end the matter for this session.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I have listened to what the Minister of Railways has said. He is trying to get away from a decision that was practically reached by parliament and this country that we are over-railroaded in this country. It is the present over-railroading that is one of the causes of the great railway problem we have upon our hands, and the Minister of Railways ought to be on guard to prevent a further aggravation of that con-

Red Lake Railway Company

dition by the frequent granting of charters to private companies. It is something we must stop.

There is no hurry for this road. As a matter of fact Red lake is being supplied to-day by communication from the air, and a good service is being provided, with people and supplies getting in and out of that area with little trouble. If there is anything in this Red lake proposition it will show itself during this summer; then the Canadian National Railway may be prepared to build into that territory and Manitoba would be in a position to decide whether or not it would do so. There is no hurry for this proposition at all, except on the part of certain gentlemen who want to follow the example that was set in this House by the government a very short time ago in connection with the building of a line into the Rouyn gold field in the province of Quebec. A local company was incorporated in that case to build from Amos into the Rouyn gold field; that private road is now being built; the company is issuing bonds and will get the benefit that comes to such a company in the exploitation of such an entre-prise. We want to stop that. The minister has not yet explained why it was necessary to employ a second company to build an extension from Amos into Rouyn. To-day the whole mining belt of northern Ontario and this new mining belt in Rouyn is being supplied by one or other of two great public owned roads. The Canadian National is serv< ing the Rouyn territory, and the province of Ontario, by its enterprise, has covered the whole gold and silver fields of Ontario with the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway, which has a dozen branches through all that territory.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I want to

speak about the principle involved in the franchise to build the road to Red Lake, because I think all that mining country, and it is the most promising mining country in the world, ought to be connected up with the Canadian National railways. At present a new thing is happening. There is a great mining country in the township of Rouyn, in the province of Quebec, where great dis-

coveries have been made and the township is desirous of getting railway service. Apparently they could not get railway service by going direct to the Canadian National Railways, so a local company was incorporated to build a line from Amos southeasterly to Rouyn. That road is being built by an independent company, and a big bond issue is to be floated in connection with it. This is a new development in the way of building branch lines from the Canadian National railway, that is, first to incorporate a local company for the purpose of building the road, and then issuing a large block of securities, and then later on unloading them on to the Canadian National. My contention is that this road ought to be taken care of absolutely as a branch line of the Canadian National railway.

Then when we come to this Red lake proposition, which is an extension probably of one hundred miles of railway to be 'built by a private company, we notice that there is a great rush to incorporate this company. We are having promoters come here from all over to build railways into that mining country. I do not know how many more of these companies will come along, but I do know that the richest mining country in the world to-day is in the province of Quebec, in Ontario, and probably in Manitoba, and all of these mines will want to connect up with the Canadian National railway. The stand I want to take here to-night, and I am sure I shall be backed up 'by public opinion in Quebec, Ontario and [DOT]Manitoba, is that the Canadian National Railway ought to build all these lines if they are worth being built at all. They ought to be owned directly by the people, and my suggestion is this, instead of giving a franchise to these private companies, the Canadian National ought to build this line direct themselves from Amos to Rouyn, and then southwesterly to Cheminis on the boundary between Quebec and Ontario, where they would join up with the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway, and once on the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway they could go north and west, via Kirkland lake and on west to a station called Westree on the Canadian National, on the Sudbury main line. In that way we will have the National Railway serving all that mining country in Ontario, Quebec and Manitoba instead of a lot of local companies. Here is the second company coming forward for a franchise, and I make the prediction that there will be at least ten of them coming along later. Now that ought to stop. The greatest mines in Canada recently were dis-

Red Lake Railway Company

covered, first of all, when nickel was found near Sudbury, and next the Cobalt silver camp. The Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway was built-it is wholly owned by the province of Ontario-and then came the discoveries in Porcupine. That territory also is served by the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I am objecting

to exploiters getting ahead of the National Railway in the matter of all these possibilities; and they are more than possibilities, thej; are actualities. It is in the interests of the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, and it is in the interests of the National Railways that there shall be a great main line through this mining country.