Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I do not think

the minister piade it plain whether or not the association accepted his offer of co-operation. If there is any document to that effect it might be well to have it.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I have listened to what the Minister of Railways has said. He is trying to get away from a decision that was practically reached by parliament and this country that we are over-railroaded in this country. It is the present over-railroading that is one of the causes of the great railway problem we have upon our hands, and the Minister of Railways ought to be on guard to prevent a further aggravation of that con-

Red Lake Railway Company

dition by the frequent granting of charters to private companies. It is something we must stop.

There is no hurry for this road. As a matter of fact Red lake is being supplied to-day by communication from the air, and a good service is being provided, with people and supplies getting in and out of that area with little trouble. If there is anything in this Red lake proposition it will show itself during this summer; then the Canadian National Railway may be prepared to build into that territory and Manitoba would be in a position to decide whether or not it would do so. There is no hurry for this proposition at all, except on the part of certain gentlemen who want to follow the example that was set in this House by the government a very short time ago in connection with the building of a line into the Rouyn gold field in the province of Quebec. A local company was incorporated in that case to build from Amos into the Rouyn gold field; that private road is now being built; the company is issuing bonds and will get the benefit that comes to such a company in the exploitation of such an entre-prise. We want to stop that. The minister has not yet explained why it was necessary to employ a second company to build an extension from Amos into Rouyn. To-day the whole mining belt of northern Ontario and this new mining belt in Rouyn is being supplied by one or other of two great public owned roads. The Canadian National is serv< ing the Rouyn territory, and the province of Ontario, by its enterprise, has covered the whole gold and silver fields of Ontario with the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway, which has a dozen branches through all that territory.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I know, but the mining country of northern Ontario is being absolutely served now by public owned railroads, either the Canadian National which goes through Sudbury and all that mining district, or the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway, which goes through Cobalt, Kirkland lake, up to Timmins, and through all the great gold fields in the province. We are only beginning to develop the mining camps in Ontario; they are growing every day. Gowganda is coming back, and all we want to do is to keep that country for the two publicly owned lines. I believe these two lines will eventually co-operate in some way to cover the whole of that country. If we have made a success of the Canadian National covering the whole continent, cannot we do

better by building our own railway into this territory, into the mining fields of Ontario and Quebec, of Manitoba and the whole west? We are supplying these fields to-day either by the National lines or the provincially owned lines of Ontario, and the people are getting extensions just as fast as they are warranted. I am convinced the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario will build this summer from a terminal called Elk Lake into the Gowganda mining camp, on to Leonard and Shining Tree, and from there to Westree, where they will connect up with the Transcontinental. We do not want any more of these private companies. We have had enough of them. We have had to take up the mess they left, and pay for it. We have got far more miles of railway than we want in this country, simply because we have been over-railroaded and over-exploited by private individuals who came to. parliament and got- charters. So I intend to move, Mr. Chairman, that this bill be sent back to the committee and in that way taken off the order paper. We shall then see w'hat the developments will be in the Red Lake district. If it is shown that there is necessity for this railway it will be built; I have no doubt the Canadian National will build it if the occasion arises. In the meantime the aeroplane service will supply the necessities of that camp in every way. It is already giving a mail and express service, and taking in passengers. They can go in very quickly by aeroplane, whereas t'he journey now takes from two to three days by railway and waterways. I am also told that the Ontario government now have before them plans for the building of a roadway from Hudson right into Red lake. In the meantime let us stop this over-exploitation of railway charters by private individuals. Accordingly I move that we refer this bill back to the committee for further consideration, and that will end the matter for this session.

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I say that if

others are prepared to build these railways, at least the Canadian National ought to be giten the preference in the matter. Does m hon. friend object to what the province of Ontario did in connection with the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario railway?

Mr. MACLEAN (York):

I should like to say a word about the grading of wheat. I recall a portion of an article written by the late Goldwin Smith a good many years ago, and I think what he said would apply to the situation. He said, "I know books because I am able to test them as a cheese monger can test cheese". The cheese mongers used to have a little auger and they bored into the cheese, then they took the auger out and smelled 5 p.m. it, and they were able to say, "that is so and so, such a grade". I think the cheese monger's test applies to our wheat. I think the minister rather outlined it when he said the conditions were changing every day in regard to the grading of wheat. It may be a climatic or other dhange. There are a lot of contributing causes which vary every year apparently in the growing of wheat, and in some way the men who buy the wheat have the same method of testing as the cheese monger. A buyer can tell in a second what the grade is. But the grade is not permanent as to content, protein or anything else. It is subject to change according to the climate. Something happens in connection with the seed; it varies with the years, and a product such as wheat is never permanent, but is influenced by the change of climate. There is some kind of internal development, so far as I can gather, in connection with the products of all kinds of growth and the process changes. It is all right to have experts in the schools of agriculture and to employ chemical analysis to ascertain the real qualities for the purpose of grading wheat. I do not know where it is going to end, I think every credit should be given to Dr. Tory and those who are trying to solve the problem, but the outstanding feature is that the ordinary buyer has the ability to grade the wheat in a moment. We ought to be able, in connection with our agricultural and other schools, to produce men who instinctively possess the faculty of being able to grade wheat, to fix its value and to say whether it will meet the demand of the foreign market. That market knows what it wants. They are always on the look out and they have the nose for buying. I am not a farmer, but I have heard a lot of this discussion. Perhaps I am not contributing anything to it, but the outstanding feature is the gift of the grain buyers, and these are the men who will make the greatest contribution to the problem of grading our wheat.