February 8, 1923 (14th Parliament, 2nd Session)


James Joseph Hughes



If the hon. member will follow my remarks I will endeavour to explain that.
When we see men, who by manipulation of the stock market, by the cornering of the necessary things of life, by the promotion of mergers with a capital far greater than the combined capital of all the companies merged-when we see such men become millionaires and multi-millionaires in a few years we may be quite sure that the community as a whole has been wronged. I recognize the fact that rich men sometimes usefully employ part of their wealth. They establish libraries, they build hospitals, they endow universities and other seats of learning, they contribute to scientific research work, they even give alms to the poor, and such things are highly commendable. But the good done in these ways never compensates for the wrongs done the community as a whole. Better by far to raise the standard of living generally *than to make a few millionaires and a multitude of paupers. Better by far to have justice and charity in the proper meaning of these words than almsgiving. " Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you ".
Strikes and lockouts are civil war which must be prevented by the organized power of all the people. Because, the first and greatest duty of the state is to protect the lives and the property of its citizens, and particularly to protect those who are honestly endeavouring to make a living. Organizations or groups of men, labourers or millionaires, to extort more than justice'must at the very least be controlled or the state will eventually perish. It is hard to draw the dividing line, but when we see labour unions demanding for their members far higher wages and shorter hours, than unorganized men doing somewhat similar work in other callings can receive, we may be sure that injustice is being done. And on the other hand, when we see other men seizing the natural resources of the country, calling these resources their own, exploiting them for their own personal advantage and by means of this exploitation become millionaires, then we can be equally sure that injustice is being done. There can be no doubt but the earth and all it contains was made by God for the use of the human beings he placed upon it. If some men can seize greater portions of the earth's surface than they can by any possibility ever make use of, and will only let other men live upon it by paying them rent for it, then manifestly there is injustice.- And what applies to the earth's
surface applies, as well to the minerals, the water powers, the forests and every other natural resource. If some men could seize the air and the sunshine, and only let other men use them by paying for them they would certainly be seized and sold, but as they cannot bd readily fenced around they are comparatively free.
And yet the results and rewards of industry and economy must belong to him who exercises these great virtues, or you destroy energy, initiative and ambition, and produce stagnation and decay. The true division should be the giving to man the full ownership of everything he produces by his hand and brain, and the giving to the community everything God created for the benefit of all. It might be hard to draw the dividing line in all cases, but when correct principles are once recognized details become easier. And many difficulties would disappear if men and Christian nations would only remember the Sermon on the Mount; would only remember and practise the Golden Rule-to do unto others as they would that others should do unto them.
But in all probability it will be a long time before men and nations come to practise this rule. Then, why would it not be proper for the state to make laws to regulate the conduct of groups of men in the same way that it makes laws to regulate the conduct of individuals? If my neighbour and I have a dispute we will not be allowed to settle it with clubs or guns, we must take our dispute to a properly constituted tribunal, when, in all probability justice will be rendered-at all events we must be satisfied with the decision, because it is the best that can be done. As I have stated we must not be allowed to settle our dispute with clubs or guns, neither must we be allowed to settle it in a way to suit ourselves, and to bring injury to other people and to innocent people, the way in which strikes are often settled. All disputants no matter how few or how many, should be bound by the same laws, and if the state be unable to establish tribunals that will render justice, and if the state be unable to enforce the decrees of such tribunals, our civilization, as I see it is near an end. In short, I favour, with all my heart, compulsory arbitration. I know some of the arguments that are advanced against it,-that you cannot force men to work and should not try. I agree with that, but in my judgment the man who will not work, who refuses to work under reasonable conditions at all events, should not eat bread at the expense of the community and I have the highest authority in the world in fact the highest Authority in the universe
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who said in addressing men: "In the sweat of thy face thou shalt eat bread." And work is not a penalty but idleness is. There are only two classes of men in the world; the working man-and nearly everybody is a working man, -and the parasite or the beggar.
And now Mr. Speaker, I will take up the third question to which I alluded in my opening remarks, namely transportation and the railway problem with which the best and most highly trained experts in the country are hardly able to cope, and which is pregnant with the possibilities of great success or colossal failure. The ordinary layman should, T suppose, hesitate before entering upon a discussion of this question, still we must discuss these things. I know Sir Henry Thorn-tor. has warned the politicians away from this subject, but an older man than Sir Henry, Euripides I think, has said "That is true liberty when free born men having the right to advise the public may speak free." Now I happen to have the right to advise the public, and whether I do it badly or otherwise I cannot shirk the duty.
Some few years ago a working arrangement was entered into between the railway executives of North America and the railway brotherhoods, which arrangement is known as the McAdoo award, and I venture to say that nothing like this arrangement was ever before known in the heavens above, on the earth below, or underneath the earth. I shall not attempt to describe this arrangement, but I have my own opinion of the sanity or the business ability of the railway executives who entered into it. Suffice it to say that it provides for promotion by seniority and by seniority only, and it pays a premium for loafing on the job, it holds out inducements to men to loaf. I shall try to give a few examples of how the thing works out in practice before I conclude. There is no business under the canopy of heaven that could be a success handicapped by such conditions. Railwaymen are not angels any more than the rest of us, and they would be more than men if they failed to take advantage of some of the inducements held out to them to get overtime and other rewards from the extraordinary schedules under which they work. But, to their credit be it said, many of them do not take full advantage of all their privileges, and hence conditions are not as bad as they might be. Sometimes there are strikes by the railway brotherhoods in the United States, and sometimes the newspapers convey the information that there is talk of strikes by some of the brotherhoods in Canada. But I have more faith in the common sense and common patriotism of the
railway men of Canada than to think they would be guilty of any such folly or crime. And against whom would the railway men strike? Why, against their own government, against their own brothers and fellow-countrymen, who are carrying a railway burden that is well-nigh crushing them to the earth.
Since more than half the railways in the Dominion have become the property of the people, what need is there in Canada for railway brotherhoods except for benevolent purposes? If a portion of the people of Canada, must organize themselves into a brotherhood to get justice from their own government, that is from the rest of the people, what kind of a country have we? And if the railway brotherhoods want more than justice for their own members, they are a menace to the rest of the community and should be disbanded.
When Sir Henry Thornton was in Charlottetown some weeks ago, I heard him speak and I heard him emphasize the necessity of willing co-operation in all branches of the service and among all the officials and employees. I heard him say there must be esprit de corps among all officials and men from the president down to the last office boy. I also heard him say that capable men should be selected for divisional superintendents and upon their shoulders should be placed large responsibility. With all of this I heartily agree, and I will go further and say that to these things should be added a desire and a willingness on the part of officials and employees to serve the public; otherwise there can be no proper efficiency. I do not think the Canadian National system has these things at the present time, and I do think the Canadian Pacific railway system has them, to a measurable degree, at all events.
Now, Mr. Speaker, let me give you my reasons for the belief which I hold. A little more than a year ago, travelling from Montreal to Prince Edward Island, we changed engines at Moncton. The engine attached to our train broke down before we got clear of the Moncton yard. The next engine we got, broke down as we entered the yard at Sack-ville, a few miles further on. A month or two before that, while travelling from Sack-ville to Tormentine, the train stopped a few miles out of Sackville-cause, a hot box. Upon examination it was found that there was no waste in the box to hold the oil, and no waste on the train. After some delay we got started again; but soon another box became warm for the same reason and another stop ensued. Finally, a third box showed signs of undue caloric pressure, and this necessitated further delay. By stopping at every

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brook and pouring water on the boxes, we controlled the heat somewhat and got to Tormentine several hours late. What kind of efficiency did that indicate? Was that an isolated occurrence? I do not know. It apparently was not. While travelling from Halifax on the 30th day of October last by the Ocean Limited, I had a seat in one of the first class coaches. The day was cold and the car in which I sat was very cold and draughty. The officials, of whom there appeared to be a great number on the train that day, frequently passed through the car, and invariably they left both doors open. I shut the doors two or three times and some of the other passengers also shut them. I spoke to one of the officials as he went through the car and stated that, in my opinion, there was no use trying to warm the province of Nova Scotia with the little heat we had in that car. He scowled at me and shut the door; but in a moment another official came along and opened it; then a fellow-passenger told me that it was better to leave them alone, because a few days before he had drawn their attention to the coolness of the car, and they made it so warm that the cure was worse than the disease. I know that the temperature in the chair cars and the Pullmans is kept comfortable; but should not the comfort of the men and women who have to ride in the first and second-class coaches be considered and should not everything possible be done to make them comfortable?
The editor of one of the Charlottetown papers told me that he was in Halifax last summer and travelled to Sackville by the Ocean Limited. He had two fairly heavy grips and wishing to get them checked he went to the checking room in the Halifax station and made known his wants. There were two men working there and they were moving more slowly than the mourners at a funeral. They paid no attention to him. After' a little while he repeated his request, adding that he would miss the train if they did not attend to him soon. Still no attention, so he had to pick up his grips and run, and as he was going out the door they jeered at him.
I was in the rotunda of the Brunswick hotel at Moncton last fall, and ten or twelve men were sitting there, most of them commercial travellers, I think. One of the men was talking over the telephone, and when he had finished his conversation he turned to the others and explained that he wanted to go to Montreal and wished to travel via St. John if it did not cost him any more than going direct by the Canadian National railway. He
stated that an official of the Canadian Pacific railway had arranged the matter for him in less than ten minutes, and that it would take a day or two to make a similar arrangement with an official of the Canadian National railway, because it would be hard to find one who had the authority to act. And all the men in the hotel agreed with him. Last summer three clergymen residing in the eastern part of Prince Edward Island wished to spend a few weeks in western Canada. They desired to travel by the. National railways because they were national. They wrote to the then District Passenger Agent at Charlottetown for information. A week passed before they got an answer, and then a telegram came with thirty-three cents to collect. The money was paid under protest, not because of the amount, but because of the principle involved. The station master &t Souris reported that the money had been paid under protest, and later a telegram came back stating that a mistake had been made and telling him to refund the money. In the meantime the agent of the Canadian Pacific railway had been communicated with. A reply with all information came back at once followed by letters soliciting the patronage. These men travelled by the Canadian Pacific railway and they state that they received every kind of attention and civility. In nearly every city they were met by an official of the railway who inquired if he could do anything for them, and who informed them that they could stay off at any point as long as they wished, and could change their route if they so desired without any additional cost except the added mileage. In short, every official of the Canadian Pacific Railway seemed anxious to please. Moreover, the information they got in the West in regard to trains was to the effect that while the Canadian National trains would likely leave on time, there was no certainty when they would arrive at their destination. On the other hand, the Canadian Pacific trains not only left on time, but in nearly every instance, arrived on time. These men in common gratitude feel it to be their duty to recommend the Canadian Pacific railway to any friends who may contemplate a trip.
I have heard it mentioned during this debate that there were sufficient cars in Canada to take care of the traffic and that the government need not have given an order for more cars. Well, I know there was a shortage of cars in eastern Canada last fall. I know there were not enough cars to carry the coal from the mines to the people who needed it. I know that the mines were held
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up for cars and the dealers in coal could not supply their customers. And I further know that at that season of the year it took from four to seven weeks for a car of coal to come from Sydney to Charlottetown, a distance, I suppose, of about three hundred miles. Now, I do not think that it was efficient management for a car to have been six or seven weeks on the road, coming a distance of some three hundred miles. Cars, I believe, are worth four, five or six dollars a day to the railways, and the car that is twelve or fifteen days out of commission means a loss to the railways of sixty, seventy or eighty dollars, not to mention the loss which is entailed to the people.
So much as regards general conditions on the Canadian National railway system. And now, Mr. Speaker, I will ask you to bear with me while I relate some of the conditions on the Prince Edward Island division, with which I am personally familiar. During the last few years the management of that division has greatly reduced the train service and the train accommodation and has at the same time, I am convinced, increased the cost of the service. I refer more particularly to the eastern part of the division. Owing to the complicated schedules governing the wages of railway men, it is difficult for a layman to accurately estimate the comparative cost of operating trains, but I shall try, in a general way. For instance: Eight hours or one hundred miles constitute a day's work on a freight or a mixed freight and passenger train, whereas, ten hours, or one hundred and fifty miles constitute a day's work on a passenger or express train, the employees, in all cases, having the right to calculate the day's work by the mile or by the hour whichever method of calculation would give them the higher pay. Moreover, the men on the freight, or the mixed freight and passenger trains have not only shorter hours and fewer miles, but they have higher pay per hour or per mile, as the case may be. And further, when the hours which constitute a day's work are exhausted, every hour after that is called an hour and a half.
From the time the Prince Edward Island railway was opened some fifty years ago till a few years ago we had a daily freight train in summer between Charlottetown and Souris, and a daily passenger train as well. A few years ago the freight service was reduced to a tri-weekly train. This tri-weekly train is unable to carry all the freight offering, the overplus, or some of it, has to be sent by the passenger train which thus automatic-

ally comes under the shorter hours, the fewer miles, the higher pay, the overtime, and what should be a day's pay for the train crew is changed into a day and a half or a day and three-quarters. But, there is more than this. The passenger train that carries freight is always late, and when this happens day after day, passengers who can travel by auto or in any other way will not travel by train, and the passenger service is greatly injured.
But this is not all. The daily freight train between Souris and Charlottetown some years ago took care of the freight originating on the Georgetown-Montague branch. This the triweekly freight cannot do. The consequence is that the Georgetown-Montague train, which according to the schedule, has its terminus at Mount Stewart, has to be ordered into Charlottetown, some eighteen miles farther, as a special freight. Now, according to the schedules, when a special train is sent out, no matter how short the distance, or the time, it is a full day's pay for the train crew. There is therefore a day's pay from Mount Stewart to Charlottetown, another day's pay from Charlottetown back to Mount Stewart and of course a day's pay between Mount Stewart and Georgetown, or three days' pay in one, for that train crew. But even this is not all. The tri-weekly freight train between Charlottetown and Souris, trying to take all the freight, is often overloaded and therefore makes very slow time. It is sometimes out on the road sixteen hours. The first eight hours constitute a day, the second eight hours a day and a half, or two days and a half in one. And this kind of thing is called management by railway experts. To be just to the men I don't think they want this kind of management, they would prefer to have regular working hours and regular pay.
Mr. Speaker, I have not yet told all the story of the peculiar railway management we have in Prince Edward Island. There is a branch line of railway, extending from Souris to Elmira, some ten or twelve miles long and known as the Elmira branch. Before last summer Elmira was the terminus of the eastern line. Last summer, Souris was made the eastern terminus and a motor bus, or a little gasoline car locally known as a "jitney", with one man in charge, was* put on the Elmira branch to carry light freight, baggage and passengers, and a regular freight train once a week. The motor bus, or jitney, was a complete failure. The car was too small to carry the cream the farmers wished to send to the butter factory and any baggage or other light freight at the same time. The

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engine was constantly getting out of order, so that no one could be sure the little thing would ever get to its destination. It frequently broke down when about half way between Elmira and Harmony Junction, where it was supposed to meet the regular train, leaving the cream it had aboard at a side station' for a day or so, and compelling the passengers who started by it to walk back to their homes and miss their train connections that day. The repair parts were kept at Moncton, N.B. and when the thing would break down a commnunication would be sent to Moncton to send new parts. Sometimes these parts would fit when they came, but sometimes they would not. This necessitated further communication with Moncton and further delay. The consequence was the jitney was out of commission about half the time. When it wras out of commission the train had to be ordered out from Souris as a special. I have already stated that every time a special train was ordered out, no matter how short the run, it is a full day's pay for the crew, so when the train -was ordered out from Souris in the evening it was a day's pay to Elmira, another day's pay from Elmira to Souris the next morning, and, of course, a day's pay between Souris and Charlottetown or three days' pay in one. But this is not all; when the train crew would be ordered out from Souris to Elmira on Saturday evening there would be a day's pay for that evening, another day's pay for Monday morning and a day's pay for Sunday, because the men were away from the terminus mentioned in the schedule; and in addition to all this the man in charge of the jitney was on full pay all the time. And this is the kind of management we have on the Canadian National railways and this describes what the country has been paying for a demoralized service. If this is any indication of the kind of management' we have over the system or over any large part of it, all I can say is; God help the country. And Mr. Speaker, I have some fears that it is an indication of the kind of management that may be found outside of Prince Edward Island.
When the jitney of which I spoke broke down for the last time, and when it had been thirty or more days out of commission, and when there was no hope of it being able to do any more * work last fall, I spoke to the divisional superintendent, Mr. Grady, and suggested that he put Elmira back on the train schedule and let the people know they would have a train every day, thus improving the service and decreasing the cost. He informed me he had tried to do this, that he had put the whole matter before Mr. Kingsland, the
general manager at Montreal, and the reply he got was to mind his own business, and that he would make no more suggestions. My statement to Mr. Grady was that if I were in his place I would not take such a reply from Mr. Kingsland, I would say to him that I was minding my own business and the public business as well, and that I would go - beyond Mr. Kingsland with my suggestion. Later in the year, in the month of December, the Elmira branch was put back on the schedule and a daily train service re-established, but this was made a mixed freight, and passenger service, the most expensive train service that could be established. .During the summer and during the months of October and November, when a considerable quantity of freight would be moving, the people served by the Elmira branch had to be satisfied with a weekly freight train, while during the month of December, when there would be much less freight moving, a daily freight was put on. The only. possible explanation of such conduct is that the local management wished to so increase the cost of operating the Elmira branch that the general management would allow him to close it altogether; and this has been done. Apart altogether from this incident, which should be sufficient to condemn any management, I know that the Prince Edward Island division of the Canadian National Railways is not run on either railway or business principles, but on sectional and personal prejudices ; and if Sir Henry Thornton or any member of the board should wish to get further information on this point I shall be glad to supply it.
When Mr. Grady told me that Mr. Kingsland had given him the answer previously mentioned, I was surprised, because I knew it was not the way the officials of any large business concern act towards one another. I spoke to some of the other officials of the Prince Edward Island division in regard to the matter and they informed me such an answer was possible because " that is the very answer Mr. Grady would give to any of his junior officials who would dare to make a suggestion to him." Not only would they be told to mind their own business, but one or two strong adjectives would be placed before the word " business [DOT]
I ask you Mr. Speaker, and hon. members to picture to yourselves the kind of co-operation, the kind of esprit de corps there must be in the Canadian National railway service when language of this kind passes between the officials. No business on the face of the Foot-

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stool could be a success managed under such conditions. I am afraid a general housecleaning is required.
Perhaps it will be a good place here for me to say that I think Sir Henry Thornton wili make the Canadian National Railway system a success, if any man can. I think he is a big man in every sense of the word. He has had railway experience on two continents; he has met railway men in the United States, in En <land and on the Continent. He is personally and favourably acquainted with wealthy men in the United States who may be willing to invest some of their wealth in Canada and so help forward the development of our natural resources and our industries. Because of the peculiar position he occupies, and because of having been born in the United States and now being a British citizen by adoption, he may have much to do in bringing about a condition of things which will mean much to our country; in fact, he may be a contributor in establishing better trade relations between Canada t and the United States.
' There are a few other things I wish to mention in connection with the Prince Edward Island section of the Canadian National railway system and I will then conclude my remarks. When Prince Edward Island entered confederation in 1873 it was on the distinct understanding that effioient steam service would be established and maintained between the Island and the mainland, winter and summer, thus placing the Island in continuous communication with the Intercolonial railway and the railway system of the Dominion. In fact "it was so nominated in the bond." This promise has never been fully implemented, either in the letter or the spirit. The establishing of the car ferry was a step in the right direction, but the benefits of that step will be almost nil till the Prince Edward Island railway is standardized, and I was therefore glad to hear Sir Henry Thornton say in Charlottetown a few weeks ago that this work would be taken up without delay.
Confederation has undoubtedly benefited the two central provinces, Ontario and Quebec. It has been injurious to the provinces on the Atlantic sea-board, and very injurious to Prince Edward Island. In proof of this statement many facts could be given, but a few will suffice. When Prince Edward Island entered the confederation fifty years ago, we had several small flourishing industries, now we have none, except a few small lobster canning establishments, which could not be moved away because the fish have to be canned where they are caught.
Mr. JACOBS; What about fox farming?

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