I hold a few preferred
shares in the Canada Foundries and Forgings. My common shares were sold long ago at a very low price. I became interested in this company long before there was any war . There was an old established company, the James Smart Mfg. Company, doing business at Brockville before some of the members of this House were born. A few years ago there was formed between two -plants at Welland and this one at
Brockville -an amalgamation called the Canada Foundries and Forgings. Being a resident of th-e town of Brockville, I was asked to take a little stock, and wlien a vacancy occurred later I went on the board. When war broke out I was director in the company and had been for a long time, and for that I have no apology to make to any person living. There are only two things for a man who lives as I do to do, if he is to remain in public life: he must have some business outside, or he must be crooked. Now, I do not intend to stay out of public life, and I do not intend to become crooked if I can help it. Accordingly, I am going to remain in business outside this House. As long as that business is legitimate, it is nobody's business but my own, and instead of my connection with this company being derogatory to me, I am proud of it and proud of what this company has done in connection with the manufacture of munitions. Let me say- and I am not doing this to advertise- that this company has no connection with the machining of shells about which we have heard so much, that portion of the work for which $5.70 was paid, but which is now being done, I am told, for $1.75. The company in which I have a very few shares does the forging work or the initial stage in the manufacture of shells;
and if such companies as that did not undertake the work there would be no shells made in Canada and no machining to do.
When the question of shell-making was proposed in Canada-and I am speaking of what I know-comparatively few, yes very few, particularly of those who could do the forging, would have anything to do with the proposition at all. They had never -done any of that kind of work, and did not know what it might mean, and, besides, not many of them were equipped for the work. The question was brought up at our board by the manager: Shall we undertake tin.-: work? Some of the directors were fearful as some of the other companies were, but as a public man, and having the interest of the Allies at heart, I said to the company: I would not belong to a company of manufacturers at this stage in Canada if it was not prepared to take a chance and do what the Government wanted it to do and try to make these shells. I should have been heralded all over the Dominion of Canada as a man unfit to be in public life if, in my position, I had not used whatever influence I possessed to cause the company with which I was connected
in a small way to undertake its share of the work. They did undertake it, and they did it well. Since, then other companies -have come in. I think I am safe in saying that the deliveries of the company with which I am connected are not under criticism by the (Munitions Board. The quality has never been under criticism by either Shell Committee. And I believe so long as shells are wanted in Canada this company, having made a splendid record in its delivery, will be sure to have work to do even if some of the slow coaches do not have work. I never asked the Shell Committee for an order-never saw the Shell Committee about an order. But as a small shareholder in this concern I am proud of the part that the company has1 had in the business, and of the interest and enthusiasm shown by every member of the company to meet the requirements of the Munitions Board and give them shells as rapidly as possible.
Some say that the prices are too high. I do not know what the prices are. The company never made a price themselves, but accepted what was given them. They are prepared to meet the Munitions Board at any time and discuss prices-I understand they have done so from time to time.
I will not detain the House longer on a personal matter. But let me say, as I see it, every man who is producing anything at this period of our history is producing something for the Allies. On our farms, in our factories and in our -shops, every man in Canada who is in business and producing anything and is doing his business properly, is making a product, a portion of which is going to the Allies. Every farmer, every -merchant, every -artisan is doing something to help along the cause. Next to the supplying of men is the supplying of munitions and food for -the army as the one great requisite at this time.
Now, you ask me if I have any criticism to make of the Shell Committee. I have. At this moment not one time fuse has been delivered to the Shell Committee- or the Munitions Board. The original mistake that was made, I believe, was this: The Government, through its Munitions Board or in some other -manner, should have taken an inventory of the manufacturing -establishments of Canada that were able to turn out munitions. I think I would have gon-e further. After tests had been made and costs ascertained fairly well, any company that- would have then refused to assist should have been under pain of
having its shops commandeered and at least a portion of its plant put to work in making supplies for the Allies. The manufacturers of Canada should have been brought into one great organized group so that the best results could have been secured. If the manufacturers had been properly organized and if orders were properly placed, the output of supplies could have been increased by from forty
to fifty per cent.
Let me deal briefly with another matter. Up to the present time war orders to the extent of $2,000,000,000 have been given to the United States manufacturers. Here is the list of some of them:
./Etna Exp.-Explosives .. ..
Amer. Car & Fdy.-Shells . .
Amer. Steel Fds.-Forgings..
Baldwin Loco.-Shells .. . .
Bethlehem-Miscellaneous .. Can. Car & F.-Shrapnel ... Crucible-Miscellaneous. . . .
Curtis Aero.-Aeroplanes. . ..
Driggs-iSea.-Miscellaneous. . Elec. Boat-Boats, etc .. ..
Hercules Powder-Cordite . . Lackawanna Steel-Steel. . . .
N. Y. Air Brake-Shrapnel.. Pressed S. Car.-Cars, etc. .. Studebaker
Harness, etc. . . . Westing. A. B.-Shrapnel, etc Westing. Elec.-Rifles, etc..
41.000. 000 7,000,000
40.000. 000 100,000,000
10.000. 000 20,000,000
20.000. 000 18,000,000 94,000,000
. . $1,408,000,000
Other figures given increase this to $2,000,000,000. I do not wish to be too critical, but this I do say, that what ought to have been done on behalf of the people of Canada-for we are not a separate people, nor neutral, we are of the Allies1 was, to collect the facts about every manufacturing establishment in Canada capable of turning out any kind of goods for the Allies and put that establishment at work. The surplus orders could have gone to the neutral countries. As it is, the large orders have been going to the United States and the surplus coming to Canada. Some orders are being executed in Canada today that have come to our manufacturers via New York. That is not as it should have been, and I criticize the Government that they did not at the outset, or at least *when the matter was brought to their minds, group our manufacturing establishments and see to it that they were employed to the full before any orders were given elsewhere. I do not think the war
office in Great Britain is without blame in this matter. It may be selfish to say so, though I do not think it is-we are part and parcel of the great Empire, we stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest doing our best and ready to do our very utmost in every particular, and from the war office down to the Munitions Board in the Dominion of Canada, their policy should have been to see that the Canadian manufacturing establishments had the preference-other things being equal-in everything that they can manufacture.
I spoke of fuses a few moments ago, and here is a criticism in that respect. Mr. Flavelle, the chairman of the new Munitions Board, criticises some Canadian manu-. facturers for non-delivery, and in the next sentence he says: we have far too many shells anyway. So that, from Mr. Flav-elle's standpoint, as we are manufacturing too rapidly, it would be a relief if the orders were delayed. I do not take that view; one of these days time fuses will come on with a rush. At the present moment the Russians have a surplus quantity of time fuses, and I cannot see why, with proper organization and pro- ' per effort, our shells could not be loaded with Russian fuses, because they are all going to be devoted to the same purpose, anyway. I criticise the Shell Committee for the delay which occurred in the giving of orders for the manufacture of fuses- My hon. friend the Solicitor General the other night said that some fuses had been delivered. He was right, and he was wrong; sometimes he is both in the same sentence. What are known as the number 100, or concussion fuses for the high explosives, have been delivered in very small quantities, but I was told a week ago that not a single time fuse has been delivered either in Canada or in the United States. Surely a little foresight would have impressed upon the Shell Committee the fact that unloaded shells were absolutely useless and that as soon as the time fuses on hand in Great Britain were used, our. shells would be unavailable for practical purposes until some person furnished new fuses. Orders <have been given in the United States, but the plants are just being organized there for that purpose. The largest plant on the continent of America is being organized now for the manufacture of fuses. It is a wonderful plant; I have been through it, but it was not organized soon enough. It was when shells were first asked for in Canada that the Shell Committee should have looked around in order that they
might have obtained completed, not partially completed, shells. This is being remedied in a way; but the Munitions Board are hinting that they do not want any more shells, or, at least, any rapid production; that we must hold back the manufacture of shells in Canada until the deficiency in fuses is made up. That may be a week or a month, and that may have delayed the conclusion of this war for six months. While men are being called for and are needed, to my mind what has caused a great deal of difficulty up to the present time, particularly with the Russians, is the lack of munitions and equipment. We in Canada have fallen down in this respect, and unless a great effort is made to rush the manufacture of fuses, we may by this one error have deterred the conclusion of the war for some months-which is a very serious matter. An order for time fuses has been given in Canada, and I see no reason why a company in this country cannot organize an assembling plant and operate it here just as well as any company in the United States. I am told that the company which is taking up the work in Canada is going to do more than assemble; it is going to manufacture many of the parts as well.
Another matter which may present a little difficulty is the lack of steel. I am told that the production of steel for the manufacture of shells is hardly up-to-date, and that oiir Canadian manufacturers are unable to supply it in sufficient quantity. I do not know whether or not that is correct, but I am so informed by a man who seems to be pretty well up in the steel business. It may take a little time to straighten that out, but that shows that there was hardly enough foresight in connection with the purchase of steel. Large quantities of steel should have been purchased some time ago, for two reasons: first, to have the steel on hand, and, second, to get it at a lower price than that at which it can be purchased at the present time. .
I am not speaking for the manufacturers of Canada; the fact that I hold a few shares in one company does not make me a manufacturer any more than the holding of two bank shares by another hon. gentleman would make him a( banker. But ever since this war began, manufacturers in Canada have been inclined to think that their interests have not been protected as well as they might have been by the Government. One year ago I asked the Prime Minister if he would lay on the table of the House certain correspondence that had taken place between the Manufac-
turers' Association, or an officer thereof, and himself. The Prime Minister told me that the correspondence was confidential and that he could not bring it down unless the persons concerned agreed. The House prorogued, and I did not see the correspondence. But this was in the correspondence, Mr. Speaker: The manufacturers of Canada complained to the Prime Minister that when they attempted to sell goods to whoever was the purchasing power at that time, they were not allowed to sell direct; they were invariably apprpa-ched by middlemen who wished to sell for them. Upon being asked to do so, they prepared a number of instances, and sent them to the Prime Minister. That was a year ago, just after the outbreak of the war; up to the present time that correspondence has not been made public, but that is the gist of what was in it. The legitimate manufacturers started out with what they thought was a grievance: that they were compelled to sell their goods through middlemen. When I say middlemen I do not mean an ordinary representative or agent; I mean the kind to whom the Minister of Militia referred the other day, when he said that the moment war broke out men swarmed up and down throughout the Dominion of Canada professing to have the privilege of placing orders and of getting percentage thereon. This took place in every city; case after case came up, and the manufacturers complained. I say that the manufacturers still have a grievance against the Government. That there were middlemen is now acknowledged by every body; this condition should not have existed at any time, much less in a serious time like this. The legitimate manufacturers have a grievance, against this Parliament in part, that they have been accused of doing something which might be considered dishonourable in connection with the manufacture of these munitions. On behalf of the legitimate manufacturers- not the mushroom companies organized for the purpose; not the middlemen who were going around the country endeavouring to give or to get orders, but the legitimate manufacturers who at their own expense put in all the new machinery; who did not, like the United States firms, get an advance of money, but who put up their own money-on their behalf I say that an investigation ought to be held to clear the good name of the .men who are legitimate manufacturers in the Dominion of Canada.
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