September 1, 1988

PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

I am sure the Hon. Member would want to use the kind of language which is suitable for the House of Commons.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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LIB

Sheila Maureen Copps

Liberal

Ms. Copps:

Madam Speaker, I am bloody surprised that a Minister of the Crown would have us believe that expenditures of $1 billion here and $1 billion there in Lac-Saint-Jean were sheer coincidence.

Madam Speaker, this statement by the Minister is one of the reasons why we are having this debate on conflicts of interests, and this has to be an unbelievable joke on the part of a Government whose recent history spells corruption of people who sought to take full advantage of the system.

I am not surprised that the Minister chose not to answer my question concerning a Member and former Minister, Sinclair Stevens, for we on this side are getting used to hearing the Prime Minister claim that he will introduce a Bill on conflicts of interests while at the same time he has no qualms whatsoever about supporting as a Conservative Party representative a Member whom a Tory-appointed judge found guilty of 14 conflicts of interests. This man is highly regarded and still belongs to the Conservative caucus, yet even his colleagues did not ask that he be thrown out as they did in the case of others who found themselves in a similar predicament.

So it is false to pretend that we will regroup here as one big family.-For instance, the Minister mentioned a big statue in Athens, the statue was weighed at Athens to see whether the gold would weigh the same before and after the insults about conflicts of interests, but I would like to tell the Minister that the $2.1 million statue which was loaned to the wife of a former Minister of the Crown was not visible. It was money tied to an interest-free loan made directly to the wife of a Conservative Minister of the Crown because of his responsibilities. Moreover, the Minister claimed in his speech that several other Governments found themselves in the same predicament. Let him name them, because according to Mr. J.M.S. Careless, who ranks among the best-known Canadian historians or it is not the Liberal Party or the New Democratic Party, but J.M.S. Careless who wrote a few months ago that this is the first time in Canadian history that Ministers and Members have been trying to benefit from Government funds, something Mr. Sinclair Stevens who is going to run again under the Tory banner during the forthcoming federal election did shamelessly.

September 1, 1988

Conflict of Interest

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

On a point of order, the Hon. Member for Athabasca.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Jack Wendele Shields (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Shields:

That Member knows full well that you do not refer to Members in this House by name. You refer to them in this House by their riding, and she should know that. I know that she continually breaks the rules of this House, but 1 think that is deliberately-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Jack Wendele Shields (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Shields:

It is reprehensible that she would continue to do this knowing full well she is breaking the rules of this House.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

The Hon. Member for Hamilton East is well aware-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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?

An Hon. Member:

What was your husband doing in this office? You forget about that.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
Permalink
PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

Order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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?

An Hon. Member:

Why don't you turkeys go home?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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?

An Hon. Member:

What is the history of your Party?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

Order. I wish all Hon. Members would refrain from throwing insults across the floor of the House of Commons. It is not helping the debate in any way. That goes for Members from all sides. As far as the Hon. Member for Hamilton East is concerned, she is well aware of how to proceed, after four years of the rule which says that all Hon. Members should be referred to by the name of their riding. I am sure that she will abide by that rule from now on and help the Chair.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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LIB

Sheila Maureen Copps

Liberal

Ms. Copps:

Madam Speaker, I am sorry that I used the words "Sine Stevens" in this House. I realize it is unparliamentary.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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?

An Hon. Member:

You just did it again.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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?

An Hon. Member:

A complete disgrace to this Chamber, day after day.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

The Chair is wondering why the Hon. Members would make life so difficult for everyone in the Chamber by willingly going against the rules.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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LIB

Sheila Maureen Copps

Liberal

Ms. Copps:

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can understand why the Members of the Conservative Party are so touchy on this issue. As far as I am concerned, the conflict of interest legislation that is before this House remains an absolute farce as long as the Prime Minister (Mr. Mulroney) refuses to accept his responsibilities-

-concerning the Hon. Member for York Simcoe.

-and all that anybody across Canada has to say. I did not say that you had an option. I did not set myself up as the patron goddess of purity, as did the Prime Minister in the debate in 1984. But in fact, it was not the Liberal Party; it was J.M.S. Careless, an eminent Canadian historian, who, when writing about the history of this Government over the last four years, said that it was the first time in the history of Canada that the tone of patronage had changed. In the past, he wrote, Members were trying to do things for their ridings. In this case, you have clear-cut situations of members of the Government, of the Conservative Party, using their parliamentary privilege to fatten their own pocket-books, to take advantage and to receive personal gain.

The Criminal Code does not stop anyone from robbing a bank. If the Criminal Code stopped everyone from robbing a bank, we would have no bank robbers in Canada. Anybody who expects the conflict of interest legislation that is currently before us to absolve this Government of a litany of corruption, a litany of scandals and a litany of self-aggrandizement and self-benefit, really does not understand, that to quote the words of the democratic candidate-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
Permalink
?

An Hon. Member:

Run a business out of your office.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
Permalink
PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

Order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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PC

Gabriel Fontaine (Chief Government Whip's assistant; Deputy Whip of the Progressive Conservative Party)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fontaine:

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO AMEND
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September 1, 1988