August 31, 1988

?

Some Hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

The Tories are laughing. They think this is a joke. They do not know what it is to feel passionately about some issue. That is Tories for you, Mr. Speaker. No wonder they are in the mess they are in today. No wonder we need strong conflict of interest guidelines.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Allan Bruce McKinnon

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McKinnon):

I would like to tell the Hon. Member that I am rising, through no fault of his, at this time to admit that there was a mistake and he has another 20 minutes if he so wishes.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

I thought 1 had to run through the speech, now I can savour each moment. Justice Parker in one of his recommendations said, key to our opposition: "In my view, the blind trust should be abolished". We paid millions of dollars for this kind of high-falutin' recommendation. We New Democrats think that it is a pretty smart recommendation, so why has the Government not included the abolition of blind trusts in the legislation?

It is the Cassius Clay stance. You think you have blind trust, but you notice the guard is still up and you are bobbing and weaving and it catches you a punch and you flick it off. It is because of this filtering system where one goes to a commissioner of trusts and you tell him what you owe. Then he says: "Sit down, my son, now which one of these things do you think we can make public?" He wants to know: "Should we make your 50,000 shares in Christ coins public?" You reply: "No, I do not think we should do that". He asks: "How about the Sunday newspaper you have in Ottawa? Should we make that one public?" There it is. It is as effective as a roaring rabbit. Of course, no one can challenge the decision of the commissioner, so there is no one to watch the watchdog. Who watches the watchdogs? No one. So we do not have an abolition of blind trusts.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Jack Wendele Shields (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Shields:

Mr. Speaker, I have been listening with a great deal of interest to my hon. friend opposite. I know he studied Bill C-114, the conflict of interest Bill very carefully. I wonder if he would like to comment on whether the Bill goes far enough so that it will stop the laundering practices of the New Democratic Party, which launders money through the Elections Act to the municipal-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Kenneth Gormley

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Gormley:

How much money did you clean last month?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

Mr. Speaker, what do they call that? Remember the guard is up. What do they call it?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Jack Wendele Shields (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Shields:

Answer the question.

Conflict of Interest

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Claudy Mailly (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mrs. Mailly:

Why don't you answer it?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

They call it reasonable privacy. Nothing that embarrasses. Nothing that really makes life tough for an elected politician, no, Sir. And who decides the reasonable privacy? The Member and the buddy the Government appointed as the commissioner, probably a Tory.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Mulroney) said it has never been an acceptable practice. He said he would never make it a practice to buy Canadians with their own money, and we all know Mr. Clean is in the House-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Frederick John King

Progressive Conservative

Mr. King:

What about laundering, John?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

-and that hundreds and millions of dollars were spent to win a by-election.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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LIB

Don Boudria

Liberal

Mr. Boudria:

It was $162.8 million, to be exact. But who is counting?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

That is right, $162.8 million.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Frederick John King

Progressive Conservative

Mr. King:

What about the laundering, John?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

We have another problem, Mr. Speaker, with this Bill. We New Democrats have a problem, and that is the clause in the Bill which we call the Gucci clause.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

Howard Douglas McCurdy

New Democratic Party

Mr. McCurdy:

What is the Gucci clause?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

John R. Rodriguez (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rodriguez:

The Member asks me what the Gucci clause is. I want to prove to these Members that I have read Bill C-114 and I am relevant to Bill C-l 14. The Gucci clause refers to the Leaders of the political Parties in the House of Commons who do not have to reveal any moneys they receive from their national Parties. We all remember the $158,000, the loan/advance to the Prime Minister. That is a euphemism. English is not my first language but I think we call it a "euphemism" for a loan. It is an advance. But then I ask, why would you pay back an advance? He pays it back. The answer is: "Because I think it is a loan". You see, Mr. Speaker, you cannot have two laws, one for the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Official Opposition and the New Democratic Party, and the rest for us small fry in the back benches. We cannot operate that way. We have to be even-handed. Of course, this is something the Tories do not understand. I could see my Party giving me an advance. I could see the Tory Party giving some of those Tory hacks in the back some advances. I know the Liberal Party does not have any money to give. It is looking for some money for itself.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Sinclair McKnight Stevens

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stevens:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I am just wondering if the Hon. Member, who is in such full flight, could perhaps fill us in on the $1,345 million his Party received from unions in this country. That is $42,000 for himself.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF COMMONS CONFLICT OF INTEREST ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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August 31, 1988