August 29, 1988

NDP

Lynn McDonald

New Democratic Party

Ms. McDonald:

They have free trade with all of them already.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

What is the Member talking about? Of course they have free trade with United States. They are part of the United States. I am talking about the Governor of Louisiana, the Governor of Alabama, and the Governor of Mississippi, I believe, who were on television. They are having a terrible financial time. No one is investing down there. The evidence they gave is that no one is investing down there. Three of them are banding together to go to Japan to invite foreign investment into their states because they cannot get people to invest. They cannot get people to invest there because the productivity is no good.

Why is foreign investment coming to Canada? Why are they investing in Canada? It is because of a stable financial situation, a stable Government, and a good outlook for the future. They have now got themselves access to an American market.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Blaine Allen Thacker (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Thacker:

We are good workers.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

Exactly. That is the key to the whole thing. I heard my hon. friend knock Mr. Reichmann. Mr. Reichmann had a choice. He could have established himself in the United States but he established himself in Canada. Why? He said it was because Americans work hard but Canadians work smarter. We do. We have an excellent educated workforce. We have productivity that is growing. The Member should take a look at what our steel industry is doing. It can compete with any steel industry in the world. Our auto industry produces a car less expensive today than the United States. What I am saying is that the Hon. Member and all his socialist friends stand up here and knock the multinationals, yet he loves big Crown corporations; the bigger, the better. The NDP wants to nationalize the banks and another oil company, yet they knock big multinationals. It is all right if the Government of Canada owns them and the NDP runs them. They love that.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Blaine Allen Thacker (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Thacker:

Would they nationalize General Motors?

August 29, 1988

Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

The Hon. Member sat in committee, as 1 did. He was a very faithful attendee. He heard testimony from small and medium-sized and large business groups. He heard from service industries which are actively involved. He heard from groups which will be the most affected by the free trade agreement. With very, very few exceptions-and the exemptions, we found out, were a fringe group of perhaps three or four members-they supported the free trade agreement. Did any of that testimony not sink in to the Hon. Member?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

James Douglas Manly

New Democratic Party

Mr. Manly:

Madam Speaker, the Hon. Member has asked a number of questions and made a number of comments. I would like to begin by replying to his comment about the southern United States. Certainly, it has been the experience of British Columbia where we have the large firm MacMillan Bloedel, which is now, of course, owned by its own multinational-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

Is it Canadian or American?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

James Douglas Manly

New Democratic Party

Mr. Manly:

In the long run, it does not matter that much once one reaches that level. I think J. V. Klein, former head of MacMillan Bloedel, pointed out that capital did not have any kind of nationalism, that it was free to move across borders. That is exactly what it did. It took the profits that were earned by the people of British Columbia, with the resources of British Columbia, and moved down to Alabama. Other companies moved down to Georgia and so on, and they invested down there. We went through a very, very difficult time. Our forest industry is still going through a very difficult time because too many of those companies have a cut and cut out attitude with respect to our resources and because we have a Government that is stupid enough to let them get away with it.

As for the fact that the Governments down there are bankrupt, well, that is an inevitable tendency when there are Governments that take almost exactly the same attitude as this Government takes. That is to say: "We are open for business. We want to make a deal. We will make a deal. It does not matter what the price is". That price may be paid 20 years down the line. Down in Louisiana 20 or 30 years ago there were probably some politicians who thought at that time that they were pretty smart because of the deals they were able to make with some of these corporations. They have since found out that they were not getting anything in return. It was give, give, give, while the corporations could only take, take, take. That is exactly the attitude of this Government.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

Give us an example.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

James Douglas Manly

New Democratic Party

Mr. Manly:

The Hon. Member wants to point to the fact that the Canadian Government has been stable in the last number of years, that we have an educated workforce, and that we have resources. These are certainly reasons why people will want to come and invest in Canada. However, the point is that once we enter into this trade agreement and we no longer have the kind of sovereign power to manage our own resources-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

Show me in the agreement where it is taken

away.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

James Douglas Manly

New Democratic Party

Mr. Manly:

We say that Americans will have national treatment when it comes to ownership of banks. They can come in here and purchase our companies. We cannot have preferential pricing any longer. All that sort of thing takes away our right to manage our own economy. When we lose those rights, we lose the rights to protect the interests of Canadians.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

That is not true.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

James Douglas Manly

New Democratic Party

Mr. Manly:

Of course it is true. It is right here in the trade agreement. The Hon. Member knows that it is in the trade agreement.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

I do not know it is in there because it is not there.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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NDP

James Douglas Manly

New Democratic Party

Mr. Manly:

We favour Crown corporations as opposed to multinationals. Certainly multinational corporations make some very important contributions to our world. I do not deny that. What I am trying to say, and what is important for the Hon. Member and everyone in Canada and in the world to recognize, is that multinationals are developing a power unto themselves, a power which is not subject to the sovereign control of the people.

What I am trying to emphasize is that after a period of several hundred years in which the people of our world- particularly the people that make up the bulk of the Canadian population-have struggled for popular control of their nations, they now find that getting control of their nations does not mean that much because effective control is being sapped from within by the power of multinational corporations which are not answerable to the people. If we are talking about Crown corporations, what we have to do is ensure that they are answerable. Certainly, members of my Party do not dispute the fact that too many Crown corporations have not been answerable to the people of Canada. There is no question about that.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

Andrée Champagne (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Champagne):

The time allotted for questions and comments has now expired.

The Chair has been looking at the amendment to the amendment presented by the Hon. Member for Cowichan- Malahat-The Islands. The Chair has some serious reservations about the relevancy of the amendment to the amendment already before the House. I would like to reserve my decision on this amendment until tomorrow and allow debate to continue at this time.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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LIB

Don Boudria

Liberal

Mr. Boudria:

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. It is now 9.55 p.m. Of course I do not know which Hon. Member the Chair now intends to recognize. However, may I make a suggestion which would perhaps be agreeable to all Hon. Members of the House? It is that instead of having a five-minute speech now, which no doubt would not be satisfactory

August 29, 1988

to whoever it is the Chair wishes to recognize, that we call it ten o'clock.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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PC

John Horton McDermid (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Trade)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDermid:

Madam Speaker, he is one of the fellows who wanted the debate. He is one of the fellows who complained. They now want to quit at five minutes to ten. I would ask the Chair to recognize my colleague, the Hon. Member for Crowfoot (Mr. Malone).

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-UNITED STATES FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT MEASURE TO ENACT
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August 29, 1988