August 11, 1988

PC

Steve Eugene Paproski (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paproski):

The Hon. Member for Ottawa-Vanier has the floor.

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LIB

Jean-Robert Gauthier (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. Gauthier:

Mr. Speaker, I-

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NDP

Michael Morris Cassidy

New Democratic Party

Mr. Cassidy:

Show that you care about your constituents. Do not just sit there like a lump on a log.

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PC

Steve Eugene Paproski (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paproski):

We have had the opportunity to listen to the Hon. Member for Ottawa Centre. He has received a reply from the Hon. Deputy Prime Minister. I would now like to hear the Hon. Member for Ottawa- Vanier.

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NDP

Michael Morris Cassidy

New Democratic Party

Mr. Cassidy:

I find this totally preposterous, Mr. Speaker.

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LIB

Jean-Robert Gauthier (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. Gauthier:

Mr. Speaker, I would like to address the same question. I am sorry to see that the the Deputy Prime Minister (Mr. Mazankowski) had to leave. Nevertheless-

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NDP

Michael Morris Cassidy

New Democratic Party

Mr. Cassidy:

He chose to leave.

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LIB

Jean-Robert Gauthier (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. Gauthier:

In the spirit of the new rules that apply to this House, the rules we call parliamentary reform, there is indeed a Private Members' Hour tonight at five o'clock, at which time private Members' initiatives are taken up and studied. Tonight, we are taking up Bill C-273 which proposes to extend certain political rights to public servants. I agree

August 11, 1988

with that Bill. I was a member of the committee that studied it and I know that the Bill submitted to the House at report stage, amended by serious consideration of all members of all Parties and in consultation with experts in the field, represented the viewpoint which I supported and endorsed.

At the time I was sorry that the Government did not take the initiative to make the Bill a government order so that we could indeed have sufficient time for all Hon. Members to ensure that the Bill was properly discussed. That was not done. I now find the House in a situation which is very difficult.

There are 25 amendments to this Bill and we have one hour to discuss them. It will be physically impossible. I do not criticize the Hon. Member for Ottawa Centre (Mr. Cassidy) for getting quite upset. It is impossible for the House to deal with these amendments by the Government, on the order of the Government, and by government members acting in concert with the government initiative. I therefore take great exception to this whole process.

I would hope that the Hon. Member for Ottawa West (Mr. Daubney) would withdraw his Bill. That is the only decent thing that can be done because the Bill has been absolutely torn up by the Government. As the Hon. Member for Ottawa Centre said, killer amendments will not help this Bill in any way.

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PC

Steve Eugene Paproski (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paproski):

I would hope that the House Leaders would be able to discuss this matter without discussing it now on the floor of the House of Commons because we have Orders of the Day to consider. The House Leaders could discuss the matter and then return to the Chamber and make the agreement. I do not think that this is the time to continue raising these points of order.

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LIB

Herbert Eser (Herb) Gray (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Gray (Windsor West):

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Government House Leader arising out of the Government House Leader's statement.

I would like to know what are the Government's intentions if by ten o'clock this evening or at ten o'clock this evening, Bill C-144, the child care Bill, has not yet reached the point of second reading. Will the Government call Bill C-144 tomorrow, or will it instead proceed to Bill C-130, the Bill to implement the trade deal?

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PC

Richard Grisé (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Richard Grise (Parliamentary Secretary to Deputy Prime Minister and President of the Privy Council):

Mr. Speaker, as the Deputy Prime Minister (Mr. Mazankowski) said a few minutes ago, we will now proceed with Bill C-144 and, if we find agreement in this House to conclude the second reading stage tonight, then-

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NDP

Derek Nigel Ernest Blackburn

New Democratic Party

Mr. Blackburn (Brant):

In one day?

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PC

Richard Grisé (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Grise:

If we conclude second reading tonight, as the Deputy Prime Minister said, we will deal with Bill C-144 followed by Bill C-130. I think it is very clear that the Deputy

Business of the House

Prime Minister said that we will deal with Bill C-144 followed by Bill C-130.

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NDP

Nelson Andrew Riis (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Nelson A. Riis (Kamloops-Shuswap):

Mr. Speaker, on the same point, I am just seeking clarification. I appreciate what the Parliamentary Secretary has informed us, but the question is: if Bill C-144 is not completed at second reading stage before 10 o'clock tonight, what will be the business of the day tomorrow?

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PC

Richard Grisé (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Grise:

Mr. Speaker, once again, the Hon. Member for Kamloops-Shuswap (Mr. Riis) is putting a hypothetical question. He is asking what will happen if Bill C-144 has not concluded second reading stage tonight. That will depend upon how many speakers rise and how Members of the House will react to that. We will act accordingly.

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LIB

Jean-Robert Gauthier (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Liberal Party)

Liberal

Mr. Gauthier:

Mr. Speaker, this is totally preposterous. I would like to ask a question of the Parliamentary Secretary in simple, clear language. There are 50 amendments dealing with Bill C-130 before the House. We have until six o'clock tonight to table further amendments if members of the Opposition, or government members for that matter, so choose. It will be impossible for us to organize the day tomorrow if the Parliamentary Secretary does not come clean with us. For tomorrow, August 12, at ten o'clock, what does the Government intend to call as the order of business in the House of Commons? Will it be Bill C-144 or Bill C-130?

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PC

Richard Grisé (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Grise:

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat it in French, although I thought I made myself pretty clear. The Deputy Prime Minister said in the House a few moments ago, in his reply to the Liberal House Leader, that today we were considering Bill C-144, and that if we managed to finish second reading this evening, we would then proceed with Bill C-130. I have now said the same thing three times over, and this is the same information the Deputy Prime Minister gave the House a few moments ago.

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LIB

Robert Phillip Kaplan

Liberal

Hon. Bob Kaplan (York Centre):

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary is playing a game with us. That might indicate to people following these debates why the Government has difficulty getting its business through the House. At the end of the day there are two possibilities. We might be continuing on Bill C-144, not having concluded second reading, or we might have concluded second reading. The difference is very important for this House.

We in our Party, like the NDP, have Members who want to participate in tomorrow's business if it is Bill C-144, and different Members if it is Bill C-130. The purpose of the Thursday question is to settle for the advantage of all Members what the score is, where we will be, who ought to be prepared to speak, and what the government order of business will be. Nothing can be clearer than the position which the

August 11, 1988

Canada Child Care Act

Parliamentary Secretary put to us if we conclude second reading of Bill C-144 tonight. He has given a very clear answer to that. However, what if we do not? That is a possibility for which we want to be prepared.

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PC

Steve Eugene Paproski (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paproski):

The Deputy Prime Minister is in the House and he can answer that.

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LIB

Robert Phillip Kaplan

Liberal

Mr. Kaplan:

We can have an orderly day in the House tomorrow-

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August 11, 1988