Hon. Michael Wilson (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, what the Hon. Member points out is that there are far-reaching pension reforms contained in the Budget, in terms of the pension benefit standards, the ability of Canadians to save through pensions, and the investment of those pension plans. The Hon. Member raises a good point, which he has raised before. I appreciate his interest in this matter. It is a question for which my colleague, the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, is responsible. I will certainly discuss the matter with him.

Mr. Roland de Corneille (Eglinton-Lawrence):

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. In studying the budget document entitled New Management Initiatives we have found that in the 12 important study teams which have been put in place to review all government programs, appointed by the Minister, male representation is 87 per cent as compared to only 13 per cent for women. If one removes the junior administrative positions from the equation, female par-

ticipation is less than 10 per cent. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with the comments of the Minister responsible for the status of women who said in committee last week that this is "totally unacceptable"? How can the Minister justify this totally unacceptable situation? Is this another example of the Government's lack of commitment to equality for women?

Hon. Erik Nielsen (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of National Defence):

Mr. Speaker, there is certainly no lack of commitment. I agree with the assessment made by the Secretary of State that it is unacceptable that we have such a low number of women participating in this very important work. I can assure the Hon. Member that, as part of the terms of reference which Ministers provided to the private sector advisory committee, that was one of the most important criteria advanced. They, in their search for women, were often disappointed, and were refused for one reason or another by women of great talent and ability, who were asked to serve. However, every effort has been made, and is continuing to be made, to involve women in this important work.

I might use this occasion to tell the Hon. Member that, in a related but separate task which 1 have in reviewing the regulatory agencies of the Government, Ms. Louise Martin of the private sector has agreed to head up that study team, along with her appropriate opposite member from the public sector. 1 am grateful to be able to make this announcement now.

Mr. Roland de Corneille (Eglinton-Lawrence):

Mr. Speaker, I do not think we want to leave the people of Canada with the impression that this matter deals only with private sector appointments. It also includes government support staff and members of the public sector.

I am glad to hear what the Deputy Prime Minister had to say in terms of his commitment. However, last November the Leader of the Opposition asked a question with respect to the concern he had about this very study group. I can say that the Deputy Prime Minister met-

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The first question was long. Is the Member now ready to come to a question?

Mr. de Corneille:

Yes, he is, Mr. Speaker.

What type of commitments can the Minister now give to reinforce the promise he made last November 19 to the Leader of the Opposition that the dimensions the Leader of the Opposition mentioned will be eventually included? Is the Minister going to wait until these study committees have completed their tasks?

Hon. Erik Nielsen (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of National Defence):

Mr. Speaker, not having described the particular dimensions to which the Hon. Member refers, it is difficult to respond in a dimensional way to his question. Assuming that those dimensions were the inclusion of women in our work, we continue to exert every possible effort to involve women in that work, together with other criteria which

Oral Questions

come to bear on the recruiting for that work, including regional representation and the fullest possible cross-section of Canadian participation in the work, business, labour, and so on.

Hon. Herb Gray (Windsor West):

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. Earlier in the Question Period he said that when it comes to the appointment of legal agents the Department decides, and not the Minister. Why is it that when the question of the appointment of the brother of the Secretary of State for External Affairs as a legal agent in Alberta came up, the Minister said in the House on May 6, and 1 quote: "I can inform the House that I appoint legal agents for the Department of Justice." Surely the Minister did the same thing with respect to his sons and the firms with which they are associated as he did with respect to the brother of the Secretary of State for External Affairs. Why isn't the Minister of Justice giving a clear, straight, and consistent answer today along the lines of the answer he gave on May 6?

Hear, hear!

Hon. John C. Crosbie (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada):

Mr. Speaker, if 1 am asked a straight and consistent question, then I can give a straight and consistent answer.

The answer to the question is quite simple. The Minister approves certain lists of legal agents. For example, there is a list of legal firms in Newfoundland approved to be used by the Department. There are six firms approved to be used for income tax prosecutions, and I believe nine for prosecutions under the Fisheries Act. Then, when a matter comes up, the Department will decide who on the list it wishes to use or, if it thinks there is no one on the list who is competent, then perhaps it will turn to the Minister to see if "X" will be all right or if he can recommend "Y".

With respect to the Olympic matter referred to by the hon. gentleman, that was one particular matter. That was not a matter of a standing agent. We have been discussing standing agents under Statutes of the Parliament of Canada for criminal prosecutions, not for advice on Olympic matters. Those are two entirely different matters. The hon. gentleman should try to exercise his mind a bit so he would comprehend that difference.

Privilege-Mr. Allmand CLERK OF PETITIONS' REPORTS

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform the House that the petitions presented by Hon. Members on Monday, June 3, 1985, meet the requirements of the Standing Orders as to form.

Ms. Sheila Copps (Hamilton East):

Mr. Speaker, earlier today in the House I was told by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Crosbie) to "Quiet down, baby". Subsequent to that-

Oh, oh!

Ms. Copps:

Subsequent to that, the same Minister referred to me and some of my colleagues as titmice. I would like to inform the House and those Conservative Members who find this very humorous that I am a Member of Parliament, I am 32 years old and I was elected to represent the people of Hamilton East. I resent the comments of the Minister who is responsible for the equality of women in this country. I resent the remarks he made in the House when he said, "Quiet down, baby". I am not his baby, and I am no one's baby. I would like him to withdraw those remarks.

Hear, hear!

Hon. John C. Crosbie (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada):

Mr. Speaker, since the Hon. Member was referring to me, 1 might respond. I certainly would not think of saying,, "Quiet down, baby," to her. I was talking to another opposition Member. Why she should think she was the baby involved is beyond me. However, if it is not the rat pack or the titmice, whoever the shoe fits should wear it. That is all 1 can say, Mr. Speaker.