Right Hon. Brian Mulroney (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member is quite capable of making that determination because, according to the Member's honourable tradition, the Minister is never right.

Oh, oh!

Mr. Mulroney:

In point of fact nothing in the guidelines precludes honest and open communication between a Member of Parliament and a member of the Public Service. They encourage it. We invite the Hon. Member, as indeed we all have the privilege and the right to do, to communicate with public servants in that area. I want to assure the Hon. Member that I view his observation seriously and nothing should be read into these guidelines-because it does not exist-that would do anything other than try to be helpful to the free and proper flow of information.

Mr. Deans:

The free flow of proper information.

Mr. Rod Murphy (Churchill):

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's guideline No. 2 says that off-the-record statements can only be given in exceptional circumstances with the Minister's prior approval. In this case the Minister did not approve. I went directly to the source and found out-

Mr. Speaker:

Does the Member have a supplementary question?

Mr. Murphy:

Mr. Speaker, under the new guidelines would departmental officials be able to come to Members of Parliament and say: "No, my Minister is wrong"?

Right Hon. Brian Mulroney (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, the guidelines, I think, I hope anyway, properly cover it. If the Hon. Member refers to paragraph two it reads:

Public servants should be prepared to openly provide factual information to the public and the media within their areas of responsibility that describes or explains programs and policies that have been announced or implemented by the Government.

Indeed, we invite the public servants, in the interests of openness and to avoid unfair accusations against the Public Service which would affect their integrity, consistent with the spirit of openness we believe they should be on the record. We encourage them to be on the record and to be identified, without any fear of reprisal of any kind. We think this is part of an important new step toward openness.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Deans:

Even Ministers are afraid to say something in fear they will be cut down.

Mr. Don Boudria (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell):

Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Minister of Supply and Services, I will direct my question to the Right Hon. Prime Minister.

Answering my question last Wednesday, the Minister said that Statistics Canada will be in a position to gather the data required for the establishment of an affirmative action program, without the 1986 census. Considering that an internal Statistics Canada report, which I have here, indicates that the census is the only source of detailed information on professions in the labour force, how can the Prime Minister explain this obvious contradiction?

Right Hon. Brian Mulroney (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, I did not have an opportunity to read the full report, part of which was published in an Ottawa newspaper this morning. But I can say that government officials have given us the opposite advice, and it was on the basis of that advice that the Minister has made the decision of which you are aware. I will be pleased to take a closer look at the report and attempt to reconcile the facts; should there be a contradiction, the appropriate measures will be taken. However, we did receive objective advice to the effect that we could proceed this way without undue concern.

Mr. Don Boudria (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell):

I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

Could the Prime Minister tell me and the House who gave him that objective advice, because all the information we have had so far from all interested parties in government, in the public at large, in social groups and in industry is the exact opposite?

Right Hon. Brian Mulroney (Prime Minister):

The committee of Deputy Ministers which had been established on the basis of our analysis; a fair amount of the data referred to this morning can be found in monthly reports of the Department of Labour. Other data is available elsewhere on a monthly basis. The collation of this data is an important responsibility of the Minister and some of his Cabinet colleagues. I should think that the Deputy Ministers did consider those facts before providing us with the data in question. I can assure my colleague that I will again look into this matter and discuss it with the Minister who will certainly get back to the Hon. Member.

November 23, 1984

Mr. Stan J. Hovdebo (Prince Albert):

Mr. Speaker, during their unsuccessful invasion of Prince Albert the Conservatives promised that they would relieve all of the farmers' financial problems. My question is directed to the Minister of Agriculture. Last week the Minister of Agriculture indicated that the request for aid to the disaster-ridden farms of northeastern Saskatchewan was before the Treasury Board. Since his Government and the Hon. Member for MacKenzie have promised this aid, will the Minister tell the House the present status of that proposal? Will he confirm that the amount to be paid will be $16 million, which is what the legislative level would be in provincial pay-outs of that kind?

Hon. John Wise (Minister of Agriculture):

Mr. Speaker, 1 welcome the opportunity to respond again to that question. It was put to me last week, at which time I indicated that I had been to western Canada. I discussed the matter with my provincial counterparts, particularly with the Minister in Saskatchewan. I indicated in my response last week that we had prepared a submission and that it had gone to Treasury Board. When 1 met with my provincial counterparts, we agreed that perhaps we should enter that project on a 50/50 cost sharing basis. The minister from Saskatchewan agreed. That is exactly where we are at the moment.