The Acting Speaker (Mr. Charest):

May I remind all Members that there will be a period of questions and comments after the Hon. Member has spoken.

Mr. Benjamin:

But it is so quiet in here.

Supply

Mr. Thacker:

It is quiet, but I can always get the NDP members out of their lethargy when I remind them and Canadians that their inflation and tough times today are clearly still the result of the Liberal-NDP liaison.

As I said, the PC Government, and particularly the Minister of Agriculture, has done more in two months than the Liberals have done over the last ten years. It was just in a matter of days that the Minister of Agriculture signed a $60 million contract with the western provinces to help the farmers in times of drought. Just like that, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture responded to a genuine problem in the West. The stabilization agreement was negotiated and signed within days so that the grain industry would have a degree of stability. For 10 years that had never happened in the West.

Concerning gas taxes, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Wilson) moved almost instantaneously, a three-cent tax is to be removed and as well the 1.8 cent tax is not going to be applied. Farmers will probably be paying 25 cents or 27 cents a gallon for gas. That is how much cheaper gas and diesel will be when they start to farm again.

Mr. Riis:

Is this a history lesson?

Mr. Thacker:

That is incredible action. For the five years 1 have been in this House, from 1979 to 1984, we kept asking for that type of relief. We got absolutely none. As a result, 10 per cent to 15 per cent of our farming community likely will not make it.

Those young farmers had no option. When the Government brings on an inflationary period, people have to jump into the fray, otherwise they would find their operations just too small. For instance, if you have an average size farm and the government brings on a period of inflation, a farmer has to expand, because when inflation is over, the farmer will find he had been left behind. When inflation sky-rockets and then starts coming down, 10 to 15 per cent of farmers cannot survive. This is tragic. What Liberals and New Democrats fail to realize is that there are human beings out there. In the agricultural sector we are losing very valuable skilled people. The average age of the farming community is about 55 years.

Mr. Riis:

What are you going to do about it?

Mr. Thacker:

We need young people in agriculture. We are in the process of putting policies in place where a young man or a young woman will have the opportunity to get a long-term source of capital through agri-bonds so that a young man or woman can take the risk but have the chance to be rewarded at the other end.

The NDP has called for a moratorium on bankruptcies. That has been done, Mr. Speaker. There is a moratorium on the FCC in order that we can get a handle on what is happening. Members of the NDP would like to blame the banks. They have this insane belief that the banks deliberately misled people. The banks were caught up in that inflationary period as well.

November 23, 1984

Supply

Mr. Riis:

What are they doing today?

Mr. Thacker:

The farmers had to borrow heavily. They did. Now they are paying for it.

Mr. Riis:

The banks made a lot of money. Canadian banks are the richest in the world.

Mr. Thacker:

The Member is absolutely right. The way to keep banks from getting rich is not to bring on inflation. Banks always benefit from inflation.

Mr. Riis:

It was 4 per cent last year.

Mr. Thacker:

The banks are getting rich.

The Minister of Agriculture has appointed a task force. This is the proper way to look at some of these issues. It is easy to say that the problem is with Section 31 of the Income Tax Act. But when you get into that section a little more deeply you find that Section 18 of the Income Tax Act has some very severe ramifications also. I think the Minister was wise to put this issue before a task force so that both sides of the issue can be looked at fairly and with some degree of concern over a period of time.

What about the capital gains tax? I have absolutely no doubt, based on experience in my riding, that we have to do away with capital gains tax, just as the high cost of operating today is knocking off cash flow for farmers. But in the longer run we have to eliminate the capital gains tax. We are a young nation, Mr. Speaker. We should not be taxing the creation of pools of capital. Why are we taxing away those pools of capital? As a government we should be encouraging people to work hard to accumulate wealth so that they are able to pass it on to their children. We should have independent sources of capital. If you were to follow the NDP philosophy, Mr. Speaker, you would find that no one would be permitted to act other than the central government, and then everybody would be dependent on that government. With the PC philosophy, we want people individually to have enough money to be able to thumb their noses at the government and say, "I don't need you. I will arrange my own pension. I will arrange all of my own affairs. Get out of my life, government." That is what we need.

Mr. Waddell:

You are not serious.

Mr. Riis:

What have you been smoking? You don't want pensions? You don't want medicare?

Mr. Thacker:

Listen to them yelping on the other side, Mr. Speaker. I always tell a little story about the NDP. The New Democrats have a special school. We have never been able to locate it exactly. We expect it is in Saskatchewan. The Member who has been yelling does not really fit in the NDP. The school is called the "whiners' and snivellers' school".

Mr. Waddell:

You have graduated from it.

Mr. Thacker:

You will notice, Mr. Speaker, that their voices have to take on a certain cut. I think that by the end of this

next term, we will know where the school is. The Hon. Member for Kamloops-Shuswap (Mr. Riis) does not really fit because he does not have quite the edge on his voice. He is almost a decent fellow.

Ms. Mitchell:

You are astounding.

Mr. Thacker:

I often wonder why he belongs to that Party. Where will we be in five years?