June 28, 1984

LIB

Eymard G. Corbin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

I was about to do that. Clause 92 was stood earlier in committee proceedings. Clause 92 is before the committee.

June 28, 1984

Canada-Nova Scotia Oil Agreement

On Clause 92-Amendment to Access to Information Act

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Leonard Donald Hopkins (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. Hopkins:

Mr. Chairman, during the past hour we contracted officials of the Department of Justice. They have reviewed Clause 92 and have informed us that all is in order. The items on the English side of the page are not in the same order as they are on the French side. However, the clause as it stands is ready for passage.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

Frederick James (Jim) Hawkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hawkes:

Mr. Chairman, we in this Party are prepared to accept that that is what the Parliamentary Secretary was informed by officials of the Department of Justice. However, it still looks to us as if subclause (2) somehow or other contains a great deal more information on the English side than on the French side of the page. We will certainly not become involved in an argument in this Chamber. I do not have the credentials to attest to being an expert on translation, and I do not intend to try to translate it.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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Clause agreed to. Clause 1 agreed to. Title agreed to. Bill reported.


LIB

Francis Fox (Minister of Communications)

Liberal

Mr. Fox (for the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources) moved

that the Bill be read the third time and do pass.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

Frederick James (Jim) Hawkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Jim Hawkes (Calgary West):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to participate for just a minute in that we have spent a good part of today on the Bill. Again I pay tribute to the Premier of the Province of Nova Scotia. Upon reading the Bill it is clear that the Premier has driven a hard bargain on behalf of the people of Nova Scotia. I think he deserves credit for that.

Also I should like to repeat some of my introductory thoughts, thoughts which I think were expressed by Hon. Members who spoke on behalf of our Party. There is something very wrong with pieces of legislation and with thought patterns which enable the Government of Canada, in the name of the people of Canada, to confiscate a portion of someone's property without compensation. This is what the back-in provision on Canada lands really represents.

I do not blame the Premier of the Province of Nova Scotia. Once the individual landholder has been robbed, then the Premier of Nova Scotia wants a part of the proceeds for the people of Nova Scotia, and that is probably appropriate. However, it is the federal Government which is doing the robbing, and that is inappropriate. I wish we could go back in time, and that the Chamber had reached a different conclusion.

One of the things we do in the House of Commons is pay Ministers an extra amount of money for doing ministerial tasks. Surely it is an insult to the Chamber and to the people of Nova Scotia that the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Chretien) showed up today for Question Period but has not been with us at any other time during second reading, consideration in Committee of the Whole or now a third reading. It makes one wonder whether or not the

Minister of Energy has earned his paycheque on this day. If there were a way to move a motion to dock the Minister of Energy at least one day's pay, if not one month's pay, I would hope the Chamber would take that action. It is an insult to the Chamber and to the people of Nova Scotia that he cared so little about this agreement that he chose not to be with us at any point in the proceedings.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Eymard G. Corbin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The Minister of Communications (Mr. Fox) on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Francis Fox (Minister of Communications)

Liberal

Mr. Fox:

Mr. Speaker, Hon. Members ought to realize that the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Chretien) has a host of other duties. If this agreement is adopted in the House today, it is thanks to the fact that the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources has been giving this matter special attention during the past months, and not to the comments of the Hon. Member opposite-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Eymard G. Corbin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Francis Fox (Minister of Communications)

Liberal

Mr. Fox:

There is just no comparison. Without the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, there would be no agreement.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Eymard G. Corbin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order. The Hon. Member for Dart-mouth-Halifax East (Mr. Forrestall).

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

J. Michael Forrestall (Deputy Whip of the Progressive Conservative Party)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. J. M. Forrestall (Dartmouth-Halifax East):

Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief. I wanted to express some appreciation to the Government. I take particular note of the fact that this is just another step in a continuing process which started with the Right Hon. Robert Stanfield, which continued with the Hon. George Isaac Smith when he was Premier of the Province, then with the present Minister for International Trade (Mr. Regan), and in recent years with the Hon. John Buchanan, the present Premier of Nova Scotia. These premiers, together with hundreds of officials, worked diligently to try in a small but very significant way to delineate the areas of jurisdiction and the questions of revenue sharing. This is but another step in that process.

As was pointed out, while the Bill may well be frustrated in the years ahead, nevertheless for Nova Scotians it is a step of some significant note. It is historic in the sense that we now know where we stand. We know now what are the rules of the game and we are prepared to play with those rules.

I suppose it remains only for us to echo our reservations with respect to the back-in provisions. Some of the provisions within the Bill will be deemed to be confiscatory because in fact they are. It was never intended that Nova Scotia would have ownership or control of the feeder lines, the collectors or all pipelines lying offshore. In essence they are the very valuable properties of that section of our life, the private sector which put the dollars into it. The taxpayers have put very little into it.

June 28, 1984

With that caveat, I express my appreciation to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. I am sure the Premier of the Province of Nova Scotia would want us to do that. I extend very particular thanks to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Hopkins) and the officials who sat with us today and helped guide us through a very technical and difficult piece of legislation. It is historic. I was pleased to be here and be a part of it. As Nova Scotians, we thank you. Keep your dollars coming.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Leonard Donald Hopkins (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. Leonard Hopkins (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):

Mr. Speaker, I simply wish to point out that the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Chretien) in no way deserves criticism on this package today. Indeed, he deserves our compliments. The Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, who directed his staff and who himself participated in the discussions of Bill C-43 and on the Canada-Nova Scotia Agreement on Offshore Oil and Gas Resource Management and Revenue Sharing, was indeed the negotiator with Premier Buchanan of Nova Scotia. With an alliance like the Premier of Nova Scotia and the federal Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, how could any agreement fail?

I am glad that my Minister gave me the opportunity to pilot this legislation through the House. I appreciate the remarks of the Hon. Member for Dartmouth-Halifax East (Mr. Forre-stall), who was elected to this Parliament on the same day I was, for commenting on it. Indeed, it is a very historic day for the Province of Nova Scotia. Our compliments must go to those who put this agreement together and followed up with the legislation. I was not concerned about the comments about this Bill today and the other comments that were made about my Minister, the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources, because I have faith in his negotiating skills. We have faith in Premier Buchanan. With a team like that, you are going to have a very good piece of legislation for Nova Scotia.

Following on the comments of the Hon. Member for Dartmouth-Halifax East, it is fair to say that this is indeed a very historic day in energy legislation. It is a perfect example of absolute co-operation between the federal Government and one of the provinces. Within this framework we hope that other agreements will come much easier in the future.

I want to thank my colleagues on both sides of the House for their co-operation in getting this Bill through, and to say that we wish Nova Scotia well. We hope that other negotiations between Nova Scotia and the federal Government will be as constructive, useful and as long term. I am sure the Minister would want me to express on his behalf our appreciation to the House for the quick passage of this legislation.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Patrick (Pat) Nowlan

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pat Nowlan (Annapolis Valley-Hants):

Mr. Speaker, I will be even more brief than the other speakers. I certainly appreciate the comments of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Hopkins). I want to associate myself completely with the remarks of my colleague, the Hon. Member for Dartmouth-Halifax East (Mr. Bank Act

Forrestall), in what he said about this Bill and the historic note that it has. Finally, after many years of discussion and planning, the officials of both governments put the details into an agreement that is complex, complicated and does go into unchartered waters. We are in a new era. This perhaps establishes the legislative framework in this new era which certainly we in Nova Scotia look forward to with eagerness, anticipation and hope.

With the greatest respect to my colleague from Calgary West, I want to completely disassociate myself with him and his remarks about the absence of the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources (Mr. Chretien), who has many things on his mind. Perhaps he had even more on his mind today, if I understand some of the reports correctly. I do not give a darn whether he was here today or not. The fact is, he was the one with the Premier of Nova Scotia, the Hon. John Buchanan, who came together in the agreement of general principle. We have seen the results of it here in the Bill. It illustrates that there can be federal-provincial co-operation. Co-operative federalism is not dead as long as Members look at things constructively in the interest of their constituent parts.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Eymard G. Corbin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Is the House ready for the question?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Question.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Eymard G. Corbin (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Agreed.

Motion agreed to and Bill read the third time and passed.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADA-NOVA SCOTIA OIL AND GAS AGREEMENT ACT MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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BANK ACT

LIB

Roy MacLaren (Minister of State (Finance))

Liberal

Hon. Roy MacLaren (Minister of State (Finance)) moved

that Bill C-30, An Act to amend the Bank Act, be read the second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Finance, Trade and Economic Affairs.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   BANK ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO AMEND
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June 28, 1984