June 21, 1984

NDP

Svend Johannes Robinson

New Democratic Party

Mr. Robinson (Burnaby):

On a point of order-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

The Hon. Member for Burnaby (Mr. Robinson) on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

Svend Johannes Robinson

New Democratic Party

Mr. Robinson (Burnaby):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member is grossly misrepresenting the facts. In fact the "mayors" in question were one Liberal mayor who suggested that a local New Democratic Party Member of Parliament was not sticking to liberal line but instead was defending the interests of his constituents. We make no apologies, Mr. Speaker, for standing up for the people we represent.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

That, of course, is not a point of order. It is a point of debate.

I also suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary he should put questions to the Member who spoke.

June 21, 1984

Security Intelligence Service

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Gaston Gourde (Parliamentary Secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Gourde:

Mr. Speaker, I thought this was a period of comments and questions. This is why I had a few comments.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

What is the question?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Gaston Gourde (Parliamentary Secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Gourde:

I very well remember the mayor who was there. He represented a community of mayors, somewhat like municipal regions we have in our Quebec constituencies.

I would like to know, from the Hon. Member who spoke of the problems that might stem from the establishment of a new Security Information agency, whether he is fully aware of the review and control process in the Canadian Security Intelligence Agency. Did he inform the people correctly, referring to the review by the judicial process, by the Minister, by the Inspector General, by the Review Committee, whose Members are appointed in consultation with the Leader of the Official Opposition and the leader of any party holding at least 12 seats in this House? Did the Hon. Member have the decency to tell the people in his constituency and Canada what impact is at stake in the legislation?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

Simon Leendert de Jong

New Democratic Party

Mr. de Jong:

Mr. Speaker, I have informed my constituents that the Government is afraid to have this agency reviewed by their representatives.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

Are there any other Members wishing to put questions or make comments?

Continuing debate.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Hon. John C. Crosbie (St. John's West):

Mr. Speaker, this is the first opportunity I have had to speak on this particular piece of legislation. I am glad I am going to have the opportunity tonight before the Government carries this to a vote and uses its majority to pass it through the House. By the way, Mr. Speaker, I was away last night on a mission. I was attempting to overthrow the Government. I have been engaged in many missions in recent days attempting to overthrow the Government. I consider it to be a patriotic duty of anyone in this country who has a grain of common sense, to attempt to overthrow this Government. I am constantly at it. That is why I am not in sympathy with the purpose of the Bill, to tell you the truth. I feel that anyone who attempts to overthrow this Government is doing a public service.

I just mention that I was away last night, Mr. Speaker, because I missed the performance which went on here last night when this institution sat through hour after hour of voting on amendments until 5 a.m. in the morning, as I understand it.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lambert:

Senseless.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

Not only senseless but useless, and a shame to the institution. If we cannot find a better way, Mr. Speaker, to operate this House, or a better way to record votes in this House, then the House may as well pass on, because anyone in Canada who pays any attention to it will lose any respect they have for it. As a matter of fact, as one can observe from the

Question Period, Mr. Speaker, and how it has degenerated in the last couple of months, the institution is just about on its last legs, in any event. You can no longer expect an answer from the Ministers on any subject of any sense whatsoever. In the economic area, of course, it is worse than in any other. That is epitomized in the kind of answers to questions which we heard here this afternoon.

This country is staggering toward another recession, Mr. Speaker, with interest rates about to go up, the bank rate up, the Canadian dollar, with no underpinning to it at all, in a tremendously vulnerable state, and one asks a question of the Minister, who is almost like a automaton in the response he gives-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

Order, please. It has been drawn to the attention of the Chair that the subject for debate is Bill C-9.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

Mr. Speaker, what I am addressing now is the intelligence of members of the Government. This is a Bill called "The Canadian Security Intelligence Service", and I am pointing out there is no one on the government side who has any intelligence, much less any security. So I feel, Mr. Speaker, I am quite relevant. But I will, of course, be guided by your wisdom. You have been a Member of this House far longer than you deserve to be, and you have a lot of experience and I will, naturally, be guided-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Edward C. Lumley (Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion)

Liberal

Mr. Lumley:

Have some respect for the Chair.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

Well, Mr. Speaker, I will move on to another subject. I have not had the chance to speak to this Bill before. I do not pretend to have any expertise.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

William Alexander (Bill) Blaikie (N.D.P. Caucus Chair)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Blaikie:

It shows.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

I think I heard a mumble from the Hon. Member from bird's nest, Winnipeg-bird's nest, who sits there behind his beard, Mr. Speaker. He has a lot of security. He has a security blanket plastered all over his face. He has the audacity to interrupt me when I am trying to speak on this subject for the first time in this House.

One of the regrets of being a Member of the House of Commons is that you do not have the time, Mr. Speaker, to get involved in all of the areas in which you would like to be involved. This is an area in which I would like to have some expertise but have not because I am busy in other areas and, therefore, have not been able to follow it with the close attention I otherwise would have devoted to it. However, I hope I have a few observations to make that will not be too repetitious.

I was listening to the previous speaker, the Hon. Member for Regina East (Mr. de Jong), who made an eloquent speech here tonight, and I heard him bewailing the fact that this legislation had been presented to the House and that the Liberal Government was using its majority to impose closure and push this through the House. I thought to myself what poetic justice this is. There are two ways of voting for a

June 21, 1984

Liberal Government, as you know, Mr. Speaker. One way is you vote for the Liberal candidate, and the other way is you vote for the NDP candidate. A vote for the NDP is a vote to have a Liberal Government in Canada, as we saw in December-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
NDP

Svend Johannes Robinson

New Democratic Party

Mr. Robinson (Burnaby):

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

The Hon. Member for Burnaby (Mr. Robinson) on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink

June 21, 1984