June 20, 1984

LIB

Alexandre Cyr

Liberal

Mr. Cyr:

Mr. Speaker, I was just at the last seat when the division started and I went behind the curtains.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The Hon. Member for Gaspe (Mr. Cyr) by his own admission was not in his seat and his vote will not be counted.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

Ian Deans (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Deans:

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is twofold. First, the Hon. Member for Lanark-Renfrew-Carleton (Mr. Dick) referred to me by name which you will know is out of order according to the Standing Orders. The second point that I would like to make, over the noise of the Hon. Member for Yukon (Mr. Nielsen), is that while it might be claimed that the voting procedures in the House of Commons came about

Security Intelligence Service

after I arrived, I think perhaps those procedures predated my arrival.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The Hon. Member is perfectly right; the practice is not to refer to Hon. Members by their names, but by their constituencies. With these modifications to the vote, the Clerk will now announce the results.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

Frederick James (Jim) Hawkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hawkes:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The Chair is trying to establish a count and is having enough difficulty. Will the Hon. Member please resume his seat for the moment?

I declare the motion defeated.

The Hon. Member for Calgary West on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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PC

Frederick James (Jim) Hawkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hawkes:

Mr. Speaker, I heard the House Leader for the Government read out the regulations. It seemed to me that until the vote was announced anyone who left their chair could not be counted. I see many Hon. Members behind the curtain. Were their votes counted?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The Chair has had enough difficulty trying to bring some order out of this. I am sure Hon. Members recognize the need to stay in their places while a vote is being taken. There are certain difficulties when one gets to the hour of midnight. Hon. Members will bear in mind that the Chair is trying to interpret the rules as fairly as possible.

The next question is on Motion No. 37, Mr. Robinson (Burnaby) seconded by Mr. Fulton. Shall I dispense?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
?

Some Hon. Members:

No.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The House Leader of the New Democratic Party indicated by note that I could dispense. The Hon. Member for Burnaby (Mr. Robinson) sends me a note stating he wants them all read. Will the Hon. Members please tell me what they want to do?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
NDP

Ian Deans (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Deans:

Mr. Speaker, as far as we are concerned, you can dispense with the reading of the motions.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

Svend Johannes Robinson

New Democratic Party

Mr. Svend J. Robinson (Burnaby) moved:

Motion No. 37.

That Bill C-9 be amended in Clause 15 by striking out line 46 at page 7 and substituting the following therefor:

"section 13 or advice pursuant to section 14, utilizing only such techniques as are approved by the minister by regulation, such techniques not to include the use of undercover operatives or those for which a warrant is required under section 21 of this Act."

The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:

Althouse

Andre

Anguish

Beatty

Benjamin

Blaikie

Bosley

Bradley

Broadbent

Clark

(Yellowhead)

Clark

(Brandon-Souris) Cooper Corbett Cossitt (Mrs.) Crosby

(Halifax West) Crouse Darling Deans de Jong Dick Domm Ellis Elzinga Epp Fennell Fretz Friesen Fulton Gamble Greenaway

Appolloni (Mrs.) Axworthy Bachand Baker

Beauchamp-Niquet (Mrs.)

Blais

Bockstael

Bossy

Breau

Burghardt

Campbell (Miss)

(South West Nova) Campbell (LaSalle)

Campbell

(Cardigan)

Collenette

Comtois

Corbin

Corriveau

Cosgrove

Cote (Mrs.)

Cousineau

Cullen

Cyr

Daudlin Dawson De Bane de Corneille Demers Deniger Desmarais Dingwall Dion Dionne (Chicoutimi)

Dubois

Duclos

Dupont

Dupras

Duquet

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

(Division No. 83)

++YEAS

Messrs.

Gustafson

Halliday

Hamilton

(Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain)

Hargrave

Hawkes

Heap

Hnatyshyn

Hovdebo

Howie

Keeper

Kempling

Kilgour

King

Lambert

Lawrence

Lewis

Lewycky

MacDonald (Miss)

(Kingston and the Islands) MacDougall Malone Manly

Mazankowski McCain McCuish McDonald (Ms.)

(Broadview-Greenwood)

McKinnon

McLean

McMillan

Miller

++NAYS

Messrs.

Ethier

Evans

Ferguson

Fisher

Fleming

Flis

Foster

Fox

Frith

Garant

Gauthier

Gendron

Gingras

Gourd

(Argenteuil-Papineau)

Gourde

(Levis)

Gray

Guilbault

Harquail

Henderson

Herbert

Hervieux-Payette

(Mrs.)

Hopkins

Hudecki

Isabelle

Ittinuar

Johnston

Joyal

Kaplan

Kelly

Killens (Mrs.)

Lachance

Lajoie

Landers

Lapierre

Lapointe

(Charlevoix)

LeBlanc

Leduc

declare the motion lost.

Munro

(Esquimalt-Saanich)

Murphy

Neil

Nickerson

Nielsen

Nystrom

Oberle

Ogle

Parker

Patterson

Reid

(St. Catharines)

Riis

Robinson

(Burnaby)

Sargeant

Schellenberger

Scott

(Hamilton-Wentworth) Scott

(Victoria-Haliburton)

Shields

Skelly

Stewart

Taylor

Thacker

Towers

Vankoughnet

Waddell

Wenman

Wilson

Wise

Young-88.

Lefebvre

Lumley

MacBain

MacEachen

MacGuigan

Mackasey

MacLaren

MacLellan

Malepart

Maltais

Marceau

Masse

Masters

McCauley

McRae

Nicholson (Miss)

Ostiguy

Ouellet

Parent

Pelletier

Penner

Peterson

Pinard

Portelance

Regan

Robinson

(Etobicoke- La keshore) Rossi Roy Savard Schroder Simmons Smith Tardif Tessier Tousignant Turner Veillette Watson Weatherhead Whelan-114.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Paul Edmund McRae

Liberal

Mr. McRae:

Point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The Hon. Member for Thunder Bay-Atikokan (Mr. McRae) on a point of order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Paul Edmund McRae

Liberal

Mr. McRae:

Mr. Speaker, I rise because I consider the proceedings are getting ridiculous. It seems to me that we have all made our point. I would suggest that the three House Leaders absent themselves from the next vote. I would be glad to absent myself as well so the two Opposition Parties would not consider there was a unevenness between the two sides. Perhaps the House Leaders can come to some agreement as to how this thing can be ended. I do not believe the public of Canada finds this a very pleasant proceeding and finds it ridiculous.

All I am suggesting is that three House Leaders absent themselves for a few moments. I would be glad to do what I said I would do, absent myself from the vote so there would be no unevenness. Let us see if we can come to some reasonable conclusion to what is becoming a farce.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
?

Some Hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Gildas L. Molgat (Speaker pro tempore)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The Hon. Member for Burnaby (Mr. Robinson).

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
?

Some Hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink

June 20, 1984