Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Hon. Member for Joliette for giving me this opportunity to mention some of the extraordinary things that have been happening across this country. For instance, one participant in Prince Edward Island won $25,000, and after that, because he was also a ticket vendor for the provincial lottery, his licence to sell tickets was taken away. Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that people from the provincial lotteries across Canada, with the support of our friends opposite, are blackmailing storekeepers. They order them to stop selling sports pool tickets unless they want to lose their ticket vending machine or, if they do not have one, they will be at the top of the list, so they will never get a terminal, and then they can never get a lottery licence! And this is the kind of blackmail being perpetrated by our friends opposite! These are guerrilla tactics!

Hon. Roch La Salle (Joliette):

Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister's reply is almost obscene. I was just asking him on behalf of people who bought a few tickets for the sports pool... I think the Minister must be responsible for seeing to it that those $20.65 are paid! He certainly cannot accuse us of being responsible for that kind of poor administration!

In the circumstances, Canadians would like to know, Mr. Speaker, and I think the Minister has forgotten to give us his

May 31, 1984

Oral Questions

projections at least for the next year... Could the Minister inform the House what guarantees he has for the system's profitability? Is the Corporation unable to pay the winners at this time? Canadians would like to know whether the system set up by the present Government, which in fact infringes on provincial jurisdiction, is profitable. I think Canadians would like to know whether the Minister can give us the assurance that the system will be profitable over the months to come.

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member opposite is asking me to guarantee how many millions of dollars we are going to make available for amateur sport, medical research and all the other reasons for which the legislation was passed. I cannot give him any figures, but it is a foregone conclusion, provided the provinces leave us alone and stop harassing small retail businessmen who want to sell those tickets, retailers who want to help us develop amateur sport, pay for the Calgary Olympic Games, and pay for medical research ... I am sure that if the Members opposite would speak to the provincial governments, to their political friends, we would then be able to set up an organization that will help us develop a true concept of amateur sport, we would be really independent! We would not depend on their political friends out there!

When they signed an agreement in 1979, they simply transferred $500 million to the provinces, to Progressive Conservatives and separatists, in exchange for the $35 million we had left to develop the Olympic Games, amateur sport and medical research! That is what they did!

Mr. John Bosley (Don Valley West):

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the same Minister. I put the question on Friday last, and the President of the Treasury Board took it as notice for the Minister.

The Canada Sports Pool Corporation has awarded two advertising contracts, one of them to Planicom in Montreal, specifically to the publicity manager for John Turner. Were those contracts tendered, Mr. Speaker? If so, was the French language contract awarded to the lowest bidder? Will the Minister table those tenders? If they were not tendered, why not?

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, I simply want to say that the two advertising agencies were selected by the Canada Sports Pool Corporation. Now, some Members seem to want politics to be constantly involved in the corporation's decision-making process. That decision was made entirely by the Canada Sports Pool Corporation and not by the Minister.

Mr. Bosley:

Mr. Speaker, the Minister can try to duck the responsibility for as long as he wants. The Government of Canada is responsible for public money in this country, and the Minister is going to learn that fact.

Mr. John Bosley (Don Valley West):

Mr. Speaker, my question is a simple one. Were those contracts tendered? If they were, will the Minister table the tenders? If they were not, why not?

At the same time, will the Minister today give the House the answer to the question as to whether he will table the hiring contracts and the list of those people whom the Liberal Party has chosen for patronage reasons to put on the public payroll?

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, there is no patronage involved. I am simply saying that the agencies which were selected had the qualifications and the ability required to do the job.

Mr. La Salle:

You are unable to-

Mr. Olivier:

I would appreciate it if the Hon. Member for Joliette would listen to my answer!

In addition, Mr. Speaker, since there is a good deal of competition in this industry in any case, according to what the Canada Sports Pool Corporation has said, we could not have the same advertising agency as Loto Quebec because we are in competition with them.

The choice made by the Corporation therefore seems to be the right one to me. It will have an impact, and in this regard, I believe that the people in the Corporation who hired this agency made an excellent choice.

Mr. Louis Duclos (Montmorency-Orleans):

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of National Health and Welfare. The Quebec Minister of Social Affairs has just demanded that federal jurisdiction over old age security pensions be transferred to Quebec, in return for fiscal compensation-

Mr. La Salle:

They answered that question yesterday!

Mr. Duclos:

Mr. Speaker, could I be allowed to ask a question? As I was saying ... in return for fiscal compensation

May 31, 1984

for the Government of Quebec. Since the tax point yield . .. That's over your head, Tit-Roch!

Ha, ha!

Mr. Duclos:

Since the yield on the tax points which would then be transferred to Quebec would be less than the average yield for tax points for Canada as a whole, could the Minister inform the House what the consequences would be of transferring jurisdiction over old age security pensions paid to senior citizens living in Quebec?

Not as easy as yesterday's question, Tit-Roch!

Hon. Monique Begin (Minister of National Health and Welfare):

Mr. Speaker, I wish the Hon. Member for Joliette would repeat out loud for the media, his constituents and all Quebecers, an opinion that shows, surprisingly, that today he is clearly a federalist and that he realizes Ottawa's old age pensions are steady pensions . . . Well, that is because you were not clear. Only the ambiguous are misunderstood.

To answer the Hon. Member's question, and without wishing to alarm senior citizens, because I think this is only a red herring thrown out by Dr. Laurin ... So, without wishing to cause our senior citizens undue concern, I think it is obvious that the value of the tax points represented by our old age security payments to Quebec pensioners would be much lower, because a tax point from Quebec is worth less, and has been for many years, unfortunately, so that Quebec pensioners would receive less money if they had provincial pensions.