Hon. Bill Jarvis (Perth):

I wonder if the Minister could explain, Mr. Speaker, if it is by design or by coincidence that the ex-president of his riding association has received an appointment; that one organizer and one former assistant to the Minister of Finance received an appointment, and that a former Minister's assistant received an appointment in Manitoba. Are we to believe that that is sheer coincidence, or is it not, frankly, sheer design on behalf of the Liberal Party?

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, belonging to a political party is not a requirement for appointment to the Canada Sports Pool Corporation. However, if intelligent

individuals have decided to support a political party, this is a free country, and if they decide to do so, they can. Now, if my hon. friend opposite wants me to publish the names of people on the other side who have asked me to try and support certain appointments, I am willing to do so, and I should be quite happy to reveal the names of those hon. friends opposite.

Hon. Bill Jarvis (Perth):

In that case, Mr. Speaker, if nothing else but in the interests of fairness to Liberals everywhere, I wonder if the Minister could make public the qualifications for appointment. For example, is a 72-hour Liberal qualified, or must he or she have been a long-term member? If he or she is a donor, for how many years and for how much? The simple question is this: what are the qualifications for these Liberals before they receive the Minister's permission to jump into the porkbarrel and wallow around at the taxpayers' expense?

Hear, hear!

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, once again, the Progressive Conservative Party did not spend enough time on its homework.

Let me give an example. Notices were published across the country. In fact, the Opposition Critic mentioned that jobs were available with the Canada Sports Pool Corporation. There were 1,200 job applications across the country. We are still examining these applications and interviewing prospective candidates.

Membership in the Liberal Party, Progressive Conservative Party or the New Democratic Party is not a requirement. However, if there happen to be intelligent individuals in the Canada Sports Pool Corporation who support the Liberal Party, all I can say to them is: thank you! They are just smarter than the rest. They know we want to do something for amateur sports. They know we want to make the Pool a success. In fact, we want to try and make up for the complete mess the Progressive Conservative Party made when it signed the agreement in 1979 and gave everything to the provinces, leaving nothing for amateur sports in Canada, for the Calgary Olympics, the Canada Games, the Panamerican Games or the Commonwealth Games! That was the policy of the Progressive Conservative Party.

Mr. Bosley:

And, Mr. Speaker, the Liberals will never bring in wage and price controls either.

Hear, hear!

May 24, 1984

Mr. John Bosley (Don Valley West):

Mr. Speaker, my question to the same Minister is very simple and is in two parts. Will the Minister file with this House a complete list of all those who have been hired?

Secondly, since the Minister says people have been hired because of their Loto Canada experience, will he tell this House which of the following is the truth-one, that the Sports Pool is not a lottery, in which case using the defence of lottery experience is just a sham and cover-up for hiring Liberal organizers, or, that the Sports Pool is a lottery and that experience is useful, in which case the Minister has broken his agreement with the provinces?

[ Translation)

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

First of all, Mr. Speaker, anyone who has worked for Loto Canada has gained an experience which can be useful in sports pools since he is expected to contact retailers and corner store owners to ask them whether they are interested in supporting a worthwhile endeavour from coast to coast. We do have previous experience and we recall that the provinces asked us to sign that agreement because there were profits to be made. You decided to let the provinces take over the whole operation, which is a fair indication that Loto Canada employees were doing a good job and running a profitable business. And if the Canadian Sports Pool Corporation thought that anyone who had worked for Loto Canada had good credentials, I said: Indeed, Sir, that is true!

Mr. Bosley:

Some day, Mr. Speaker, the Minister is going to have to admit that the Government of Canada made a great deal more money out of that agreement than it is going to make out of the way this Government is running the proposal.

Mr. John Bosley (Don Valley West):

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is quite simple. The Minister knows full well that the experience with sports pools has not been good and that the probable financial success of this particular corporation is in some doubt, in the minds of many people. Given the evidence produced by the press, will the Minister now finally admit that the real reason behind creating the Sports Pool was not the Olympics, was not medical research, and was not amateur sport, but was in fact an opportunity created by the Government to put back on the public payroll, at big salaries and huge expense, Liberals who were put out of work when Loto Canada was killed?

Hon. Jacques Olivier (Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport)):

Mr. Speaker, it is inconceivable that Members opposite have yet to understand that we need money to help

Oral Questions

amateur sports in Canada. Since we are talking about money, people have had enough of taxes, and the only way to find a new source of revenue was to set up the Canadian Sports Pool Corporation, and that is why we created it. The Progressive Conservatives are free to speak against amateur sports and raise objections against the fact that we want to help Calgary. But we are in favour of that, we are in favour of promoting medical research and we want to do everything we can to support amateur sports. If they are against that, so be it!

Mr. Ian Deans (Hamilton Mountain):

Mr. Speaker, my question is not about lotteries, although what I am going to ask the Minister of Finance about is rapidly turning into a bit of a game of chance. Recognizing that Canadians contributing to pension plans are entitled to expect that their hard-earned contributions will entitle them to a reasonable return when they retire, will the Minister take a look at some recent cases, such as Prestolite in 1978, and the most recent being CCM, which left 450 workers without any pension benefits, and determine how it can be that the federal Government, through the Enterprise Development Program, bailed out the Royal Bank, CCM's major creditor, to the tune of $8 million, while every single one of its 450 employees lost their pension benefits because CCM closed down?

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member is certainly aware that a Parliamentary committee has carried out a complete review of the various pension schemes and tabled its report. Based on this report, I proposed in my last budget a number of improvements to the Canada Pension Plan. I hope Parliament will support my recommendations and proposals. I should like to remind the Hon. Member, however, that over 80 per cent of corporate pension funds in Canada come under provincial jurisdiction. If he considers the cases which he has referred to, I think he will realize that these particular pension funds were regulated by the government of Ontario, and that the regulation and control of the pension funds in question were a provincial responsibility.

Now, this remains a serious problem which should be under constant review by both the federal and provincial levels of government.

As to the assistance provided under the Enterprise Development Program, it was meant to maintain jobs in an industry faced with major difficulties and not to salvage a particular bank.

May 24, 1984

Oral Questions

Mr. Ian Deans (Hamilton Mountain):

Mr. Speaker, I put it to the Minister that the problem does not require further study. It is clear that employees who have contributed over the years to company pension plans in Canada face the risk, in fact the probability, that during economically depressed times such as we have been having, their pension plans will disappear with their jobs. Will the Minister bring forward legislative proposals to alter the Canada and Quebec Pension Plans to ensure that the pension contributions of employees, whether private or public, will be protected in the same way as the Royal Bank investment was protected in the case of CCM?