May 24, 1984

NDP

Ian Deans (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Deans:

Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief. I will first say that there is no conflict in saying that you cannot create jobs and at the same time talking about looking at the work which needs to be done and doing it. In the process people become employed. I think the Member would recognize that there is no conflict between those two.

With regard to the work week, the argument being put forward by a significant number of people about the inadvisability of moving toward a shorter work week is the same argument that was put forward by basically the same people when the work week was shortened before. Although that argument has a certain appeal, it turns out in the long run not to have any real substance. If we are able to stimulate economic activity by doing a variety of things, as I suggest we will, if we are able to reduce the cost by stabilizing the interest rates and if we are able to stimulate activity in small businesses by virtue of the capital works projects, then the small business

May 24, 1984

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entrepreneur will be in a position to accept a move toward a shorter work week. As a result there will be more people in the consumer marketplace, more people buying his product and more people active in society. That will be to his long-term benefit.

I do not think anyone is suggesting that a shortening of the work week would happen overnight. We must move systematically to reduce it in a gradual way, recognizing that there can be some detrimental effects, but also recognizing that the economy can be stimulated because there is new capital flowing to those small businesses.

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LIB

Peter Joseph Lang (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of State (Youth))

Liberal

Mr. Lang:

Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment on the Hon. Member's assertion that there is no resistance at all by the union movement to the apprenticeship program. He made the point, and I agree with it, that in the past business has tended to import skilled labour because it was cheaper to do so. However, government has put up obstacles to this by requiring that any new jobs must be posted across Canada for a full month before an immigrant can take that job. I also agree that business, labour and government all have a role to play in ensuring that a good apprenticeship program comes in and in dealing with the problem in other ways.

I do not think we can whitewash and say that the trade union movement is receptive to the apprenticeship program. They have legitimate concerns that this may be a method of reducing income and cutting costs in the workplace. I think that has to be legitimately addressed. We must set aside some of our natural biases, depending upon our Parties, to address that particular problem. I would like to hear the Hon. Member's ideas on this.

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LIB

Jacques Guilbault (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Guilbault):

The Hon. Member for Hamilton Mountain (Mr. Deans) has one minute to respond.

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NDP

Ian Deans (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Deans:

I recognize the time is passing quickly, Mr. Speaker. Nothing the Member has said would lead me to believe that there has been resistance on the part of trade unions to the implementation of an accredited apprenticeship training program in Canada. There was resistance by trade unions to the thrust which would result in people being hired at lower wages to do the work already being done by others who would then be unemployed. Great Britain, Sweden, France and Japan have been able to establish apprenticeship programs which allowed young people to enter the workforce and be trained properly in the way in which the work was to be done without impeding or in any way detrimentally affecting the employment opportunities for those workers presently working. I do not see why that cannot happen in Canada. You will find no resistance on the part of the trade union movement.

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LIB

Jacques Guilbault (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Guilbault):

Order, please. The time has come to resume debate on the amendment. The Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence (Mr. de Corneille).

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PC

Ramon John Hnatyshyn (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hnatyshyn:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I do not want to delay this debate because it is an important topic.

My recollection, Mr. Speaker, was that you recognized the Hon. Member for Mission-Port Moody (Mr. St. Germain) who then, out of the graciousness for which he is well known in the House, deferred to the Member for Hamilton Mountain (Mr. Deans). It seems to me that under the circumstances, having been recognized, the logical person to be recognized to carry on the debate should be the Member for Mission-Port Moody. You had asked him, Sir, if he would be prepared to defer to the Member for Hamilton Mountain. I will not make any further comment except to say that, in all sense of fairness, he has been waiting and was prepared to proceed. I think it is only equitable that he now proceed with his speech.

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LIB

Jacques Guilbault (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Guilbault):

Earlier the Chair humbly recognized that it had made a mistake in not passing from the Progressive Conservative Party to the New Democratic Party since we are in an initial round today. To do what the Hon. Member is suggesting would simply compound the mistake by depriving the other Party from having a speaker in the initial round. The Chair has recognized the Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence.

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LIB

Roland de Corneille

Liberal

Mr. Roland de Corneille (Eglinton-Lawrence):

Mr. Speaker, youth unemployment is not, as some members of the Opposition claim, a problem that can be solved easily or quickly. The public and the Opposition know that there is no quick fix. Nor is it, on the other hand, as some propose, a temporary aberration that can be blamed on the arrival of the baby boom generation. Rapid growth in the population has certainly had its effect, as has the recent recession, but of more significance I suggest is the way we do business in this country, the way our educational system works and the way we counsel and guide our young people as they prepare to enter the workforce.

Our young people in Canada represent the best trained and best educated generation of our history. Yet it is a cruel irony that many of them are still on the outside looking in, unable to find a job. It is no secret that many young people who are out of work are now coming to the conclusion that their skills and their education are of no use.

The youth of Canada are ready and able to take their rightful place in society and we, as a Government and as concerned adults, must see that they do. Technology is rapidly carrying us to the 21st century, but because of the rapidity of this change, all too often our skills and management techniques are still those of the 20th century. Exciting new jobs are being created that demand workers with specialized training. Our competitiveness in international markets and ultimately our standard of living depend on our ability to fill these jobs with qualified people.

We live in the age of the technician. If we do not train people for the types of jobs available in the labour market, if we persist in producing workers without the right skills, then the unemployment rate will remain high with jobs just going begging. The young people today recognize these facts and are expressing their concerns eloquently and admirably. Certainly

May 24, 1984

we respect and should encourage the pressure that should always be placed upon government to seek every avenue to try to provide opportunities for young people.

The young people tell us that we must concentrate on the development of skills and human resources for all segments of the youth population. We must generate meaningful activities in the areas of education, training and voluntary services for all those with depressed employment prospects. We must promote a sense of excellence and innovation and encourage young people to identify with these goals of society so that their considerable talents will improve. The public should not be misled that we can do this overnight.

This Government has already taken huge steps to respond to these concerns. Through our Youth Opportunity Fund, we will invest more than $1.3 billion in this fiscal year alone in training, job creation and employment services for young people. That is a significant amount of money.

The Youth Opportunity Fund is a comprehensive and overall global approach to a very complex problem. Through this fund, programs and services are made available for all youth groups, including the early high school leaver who has little or no educational skill that would provide him with a job in the workforce at the present time, students searching for summer work experience and all other young people looking for an entry into the world of work.

Today I would like to focus my remarks, which of course are limited by time, on the national training program and how the Government, through that program, is helping young people develop the skills that will enable them to be truly productive members of Canada's workforce. When the National Training Act was proclaimed in 1982, it allowed us to bring our training system up to date and to prepare Canadians for full participation in this technological era. With it, we have been able to develop policies and programs that compare favourably with those of other countries. The program is designed to help those who need to update their present skills, learn new ones or to be in a better position to find permanent employment.

The national training program is working at its full capacity to give Canadians the skills that they will need to find rewarding jobs. In point of fact, the Government has in place an enlightened program and policy that provides for the training and retraining needs of all its human resources. This Government is at the forefront of activity to develop the talents of all Canadians, but extends a helping hand to those who need it the most. While there is concern for all, undeniably, young people-especially those with little education and skills and those whose education has not prepared them for the realities of the workplace-are prime beneficiaries.

Perhaps at this point I should mention the extent of our financial assistance for training. This fiscal year we will be spending more than a billion dollars to help Canadians upgrade their present skills or to learn new ones. More than half of the total training budget is directed toward the purpose of courses in both public and private learning institutions for individual Canadians. This will provide training opportunities

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for some 220,000 men and women, nearly half of whom will be young people.

Besides this institutional training, we have in place the industrial training component, projected to train some 61,000 Canadians during this fiscal year. More than 26,000 of them will be young people. Industrial training is highly important as it involves the co-operation and partnership of the private sector where trainees learn a trade under general industrial training or a skill of national importance under the critical skills training stream. The Hon. Member for Kitchener (Mr. Lang) alluded to that program and its importance a few moments ago.

This emphasis on training and retraining in high skill occupations is in fact in effect. It is an important aspect of the national training program. As a result, there has been a sharp increase in the number of trainees in occupations of national importance. In fact, in terms of trainee starts, the number has nearly doubled in less than two years. Occupations are designated as being of national importance when they have traditionally been in short supply or foreseen as being needed in tomorrow's high technology world for which appropriate training action can be taken to prevent or alleviate the shortage.

Another way in which the Government is helping to meet the challenge of change quickly is through what is known as the Skills Growth Fund. This fund, which was established through the National Training Act, assists public institutions as well as non-profit organizations to establish, expand or modernize training facilities. Since this Skill Growth Fund got under way less than two years ago, a total of 247 projects have been approved with a value of more than $165 million. Every province and territory has had projects approved. Both the public and private sectors have benefited. The figures show that public institutions such as community colleges have had 205 projects approved and a total funding of $148 million.

Just two weeks ago, the Government added another $30 million to the Skills Growth Fund for 1984-85. This money, coming as it does from the Youth Opportunity Fund, has been specifically designated to improve training opportunities and facilities for young people. Surely Hon. Members will agree that this is evidence of the Government's concrete action to help young people.

Let me cite a few examples to show how the Skills Growth Fund works to improve training opportunities. A youth job corps program in Toronto is using its $261,000 allocation for employment preparation. The Nova Scotia Nautical Institute in Port Hawkesbury is using its $3.2 million contribution to provide much needed maritime training to more than 300 trainees annually. The Youth Business Learning and Development Centre in Winnipeg has received $107,000 to provide training and clerical assistance to people with special needs. The focus of this project is clerical upgrading, including word processing. The training is computer-based and this innovative approach has already shown to be effective with the project's young clientele. On the West Coast, at the British Columbia Institute of Technology, the Skills Growth Fund has made

May 24, 1984

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possible a new robotics program and the Pacific Vocational Institute is using the fund for a high-tech training centre.

I cite these examples, Mr. Speaker, to illustrate, since large amounts of money can boggle the mind and leave one with a lack of understanding and perception, how the Government is effectively working to ensure we have highly trained Canadians ready to meet the high-skill needs of our future economy. By citing the different places, I have endeavoured to show that this effort is being made across the whole nation, and is trying to provide meaningful opportunities for people to take on jobs in all parts of Canada.

I might add at this point that the operation of the Skills Growth Fund is an excellent example of how this Government co-operates with the provinces as well as with businesses, as we have indicated, in the private sector, and various other organizations, both charitable and community minded, in pursuit of a national goal. It is a comprehensive program involving all phases of community life, public, private and charitable.

A key element in preparing young people to enter the labour market is being able to predict which skills and professions will be in greatest demand in the next few years so that the education and training provided corresponds to the real needs of our economy. To do this effectively, we need to know what the needs will be and where. With this in mind, and in very close collaboration with other governments, labour and business, we have developed the Canadian Occupational Projection System, or COPS. The system has been designed to collect, process and disseminate information on the future supply of, and demand for, workers on a professional basis.

The goal, then, is to plan Canada's human resources better, and especially its young human resources. It is to plan, where there are people with little or no skills, for retraining, or for those who wish to have and need skills in those industries requiring people with special skills, and, of course, the professions. It is a totally comprehensive approach to the entire subject of human resources and employment. It is not a patchwork type of thing, here, there or the other place. It is a total approach to a total problem which has huge and important dimensions to it in the future.

I could go on about the efforts of the Government to train our young people for the world of work, but I am glad that I have had this opportunity to talk about one aspect of it to show that dismissing the work of the Government in a few simple words is most unfair, most ineffective and inaccurate.

I could go on about the efforts of the Government. Just two weeks ago, for example, we announced the establishment of a new youth training option. With $30 million of Youth Opportunity Fund money, this option will offer young people a new form of training lasting up to a year. It is being designed to provide participants with both theoretical training and structured on-the-job training and experience. When it becomes operational around Labour Day, it will truly provide young people with yet one more option for learning. I know that all Members here share this Government's concern for our young

people. Obviously this subject would not have been called on this Opposition Day if it were not a shared concern. I think it is important, therefore, for the whole picture to be given.

Our youth are standing on the threshold of greatness in the Canada of the future. We all have a stake in what happens to our young people. With the programs this Government has put in place and is putting in place, we are ensuring they acquire the knowledge, the skills and the experience that will equip them for the way ahead.

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LIB

Jacques Guilbault (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Guilbault):

Are there any questions or comments relating to the remarks of the Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence?

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PC

Gordon Edward Taylor

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Taylor:

Mr. Speaker, the Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence (Mr. de Corneille) mentioned that the starts under the national training program doubled in two years. I believe the national training program came into force in 1982. If you start from nothing, doubling does not mean anything. If you have one and double it, you only need one more. But if you have 1,000 and double it, it would be 2,000. Could the Hon. Member give me the figures he has which show the doubling?

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LIB

Roland de Corneille

Liberal

Mr. de Corneille:

Mr. Speaker, I do not have the release here from which I cited my figures, but I think to observe that when you start from nothing and you double it you have nothing is a cavalier approach to what I thought was a rather comprehensive description of a very serious and comprehensive program. It is a program which has a great deal of taxpayers' money invested in it and a great deal of thought has been given to it by Canada's civil servants as well as this Government to make it an effective training program for our people. To minimize its scope, to disregard it or to be a cavalier about it is really not the point here. I hope that is not what is intended.

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PC

Gordon Edward Taylor

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Taylor:

Mr. Speaker, who is minimizing it? I am simply asking for the facts.

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PC

Henry Perrin Beatty

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Beatty:

He says he does not know.

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PC

Gordon Edward Taylor

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Taylor:

I am asking what is the figure. Is the conscience of the Hon. Member bothering him? I simply asked for the figure. What was the figure that was doubled? How many starts are being made this year? How many were made in 1982 and 1983? That is all I want to know. I am not minimizing the program, Mr. Speaker, I just want to know the facts. Is there no answer from the Hon. Member?

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PC

Claude Girvin (Girve) Fretz

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fretz:

Mr. Speaker, it is amazing that we did not get an answer to the question posed by the Hon. Member for Bow River (Mr. Taylor). However, we know it is not necessary to answer if the Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence feels he does not want to answer.

During his speech he said that there can be no quick fix. I do not think we are having even a slow fix to the problems we are experiencing in this country today. What we are having is an attempt at patching up. What we need are new initiatives as espoused by our spokesperson this morning, the Hon. Member for Elgin (Mr. Wise). Our Party does espouse job

May 24, 1984

training, as indicated in the speech delivered by the Hon. Member for Elgin.

We feel job training and job retraining is important, but what we need are brand-new initiatives, which we are not getting. Job training and retraining are not just good enough if there are no jobs for young people to go to. That is the area in which this Government is deficient. That is the area about which this Government is failing to do anything. This Government has literally failed in job training and retraining. Even if that were sufficient in itself, there are simply not the jobs for young people to go into because this Government lacks the determination, the political will and is deficient in the area of philosophy of getting jobs for the young people today.

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LIB

Roland de Corneille

Liberal

Mr. de Corneille:

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments the Hon. Member has made about his concern about the effectiveness of the programs. By commenting on that, I think he should then provide some examples of where these programs are not reaching out or not meeting people's requirements. What I have been trying to do is to specialize in a certain specific area and provide facts and programs so that Hon. Members and the public may know the wide range of programs being made available to enable people to take on jobs. It is not only a matter of making jobs available but of making Canadians able to work in the jobs that are available or that down the line will become available. It is not possible, and I am glad it has been reiterated, to have a quick fix.

I believe the facts I have presented to the House concerning the programs in place and being funded at the present time will have to speak for themselves. I tried to show the comprehensive nature of them. I hope they will be effective. I know that in some cases in my riding in the City of Toronto they are effective.

We can talk about creating positions, but we also have to talk about the fact that many new jobs have been created. When we talk about figures and statistics, very often we become depressed or concerned about the fact that there is a large reservoir of unemployed. However, it is important that we are creating jobs at a record rate in Canada as compared with other countries in the western world. When we look at that fact and at the training programs available to Canadians, they comprise a policy. I hope the Government will never give up its efforts or feel satisfied with anything less than total employment.

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PC

Alexander Bell Patterson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Patterson:

Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence (Mr. de Corneille), but first I will refer to an article which appeared in my local newspaper. I received it just today. It indicates that the job situation in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia is devastating. This report was the result of the work of a task force established by the Fraser Valley College. In part the article reads:

College principal Dr. Barry Moore said "I found the report just devastating."

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Also it pointed out that somewhere between 9,000 and

15,000 youths between the ages of 15 and 24 years are unemployed in the Fraser Valley region. According to the article, Dr. Moore stated:

It's just further indication of a major kind of new era we're going into, where 20 to 25 per cent of the people are not able to find jobs.

That's the prospect. I think we're facing a major, major shift in our society.

The Hon. Member referred to several programs which were put in place by the Government. What percentage of the amounts requested under the provisions of the various programs has actually been allocated to date?

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LIB

Roland de Corneille

Liberal

Mr. de Corneille:

Mr. Speaker, I would not want to answer that question because I do not have the most recent facts. The Hon. Member should direct that question to the Minister of Employment and Immigration (Mr. Roberts) or to the Minister of State for Youth (Mrs. Hervieux-Payette) in Question Period.

However, I can point out that there are certainly programs in place in my riding. I have cited in my comments certain examples of programs across the country in order to point out that it is a real thing, not merely figures at which one could look and merely say: "Oh, the Government is throwing money at it". On the contrary, the Government is establishing carefully thought out programs in collaboration and consultation with the provinces and with the Public Service to work with institutions such as our universities and community colleges. The total picture involves many organizations throughout the country.

On May 14 there was an announcement by the Minister of Employment and Immigration that 300 projects were being undertaken with Imperial Oil which have just been enlarged. By increasing its fund base, Imperial Oil has been able to add to the program. I refer the Hon. Member to that press release as an example of the specific way in which we deal with the private sector. I am sorry I cannot give him the present statistic as to what is the exact percentage.

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LIB

Jacques Guilbault (Assistant Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Guilbault):

Since there are no further questions or comments, the House will now proceed to debate.

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PC

Gerry St. Germain

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Gerry St. Germain (Mission-Port Moody):

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on a subject which I wish did not exist in the magnitude it does; as a matter of fact, I wish it was totally non-existent. Youth unemployment is the most terrifying blight which has reared its head in Canada since the depression of the 1930s. It is a serious social problem. If it is not corrected immediately, it will have lasting effects for generations to come.

Most young Canadians find themselves in a dead-end situation, actually on a dead-end street, due to high levels of unemployment. Parents and students have worked hard and sacrificed to obtain education. With unemployment being so high and the prospects so negative, they are asking why they

May 24, 1984

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should obtain a degree or training. This is understandable; I have an unemployed youth in my own home who is trained and educated.

As of April there were 1,235,000 young people attending school full time. Over the next few months, if past experience is any guide, approximately 650,000 young people will attempt to enter the labour force, further magnifying and amplifying the problem. We are entering a new era, one that is totally different from what Canadians have had to face before. Rapidly changing technology, different labour laws and the development of a new philosophical working program surround us.

These changes require a great deal of planning, something which the Government opposite has totally neglected. Also they will require a great deal of understanding and a closer working relationship with our fellow Canadians. With this in mind, it is that much more important for them to have a functional education.

Why are we debating a non-confidence motion today regarding the Government's inability to cope with youth unemployment? The reasons are numerous. I should like to point some of them out in the House today. According to the Government, the current youth unemployment problem is based upon structural problems in the economy. The Liberals have said that we will never again see full employment. It is unadulterated hogwash that we will never see full or even close to full employment again. The structural economic problems to which the Liberals refer point to the mismanagement of the Liberal Government. Its structure for the last 16 years has caused these problems. Growth and jobs will come with good, sound management.

I would like to indicate how ludicrous is the approach of the Government to these problems. It claims that youth unemployment will disappear because the number of youths is declining. What will really happen is that youth unemployment will merely change category in Statistics Canada reports, but the problems will remain. Just the word "youth" will be removed. Yes, in two years or three years youth unemployment will decrease, but the problems will remain given the same administration.

Let me talk a little bit about the social stigma that unemployment brings to a community. The effects are not nice to talk about but it is time we started to recognize them. When people lose their jobs, or cannot get jobs, they lose their dignity. It is not only the families that suffers but entire communities. The riding of the Hon. Member for Fraser Valley East (Mr. Patterson) is directly south of mine. Reports are that we have up to 47 per cent unemployment in my riding. I have raised this matter in the House. Hopefully the Minister of Employment and Immigration (Mr. Roberts) will look at that area. That is an indication of the severity of the problem, as so aptly pointed out by the Hon. Member for Fraser Valley East.

Once someone is unemployed for a long period of time, studies show that it is harder to train and employ such an

individual. In Ontario, 20 per cent of those who are hard to employ eventually end up representing 50 per cent of the welfare costs.

Let me get down to the real social problems, problems I have seen as a peace officer in this country. Suicides among those between 15 to 24 have quadrupled since the 1940s. Of

4.000 suicides reported in 1981, 1,300 were teenagers. For each one carried out, there were 100 to 150 attempts. Alcohol consumption by those 13 to 20 years old sharply increased for both boys and girls. Frustrated by a society that appears to offer no future, no hope for the unemployed, they become depressed, despondent and eventually become addicted to drugs. That is the only alternative they see in the bleak window of life that has been caused by mismanagement. The only way out of this dilemma is to change the scene so that our youth can once again look to the future optimistically. They must be allowed to dream and hope must be restored. This can be done only by creating a country where they can develop job skills in trades or professions and become productive participants in this great country.

How did the Liberals attempt to deal with these problems? They first tried make-work programs that included no training. There was the Canada Works program. It was an attempt to delay the inevitable by taking tax dollars and throwing them in every direction. Now what do we hear from the Minister of Employment and Immigration? We should change our approach and start training with U.I. benefits. At last he is starting to listen to what we on this side of the House have been telling him. We must act now. We have a generation adrift.

The Government has been recycling people through its glorified welfare system, from UI to Canada Works. It is a vicious circle that does not go anywhere. I think the Government recognizes this. I went to look at some of the statistics with regard to these programs. In March, 1984 youth unemployment was just over 525,000, as pointed out by the Hon. Member for Elgin (Mr. Wise), a rate of 18.2 per cent. As the Hon. Member for Elgin pointed out, who knows the real figure? It could be as high as 1.4 million youth unemployed.

In 1983 the unemployment rate in Canada for young adults, those aged 20 to 24, was 18.5 per cent. This compared to 18.2 per cent in the United Kingdom, 14.6 per cent in Australia, 14.6 per cent in the United States, 7 per cent in Sweden and

4.1 per cent in Japan. Canada had the highest unemployment rate for young adults of any major western industrialized nation last year. The current rate is 17.1 per cent for both sexes, 19.6 per cent for young adult males.

The Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence said that the Government had created jobs. With all due respect, they were short-term jobs. With all the respect in the world, there was no other way to go. I could see that with the policies it had. We spend about $3.2 million per day trying to reduce unemployment through these programs.

Youth form 25 per cent of the workforce and about 30 per cent of the unemployed. We know that we are in trouble, real trouble. The pre-depression figures-and I use the word "depression"-for June, 1981 show youth unemployment at

May 24, 1984

12.2 per cent, representing approximately 398,000 unemployed youth. At that time unemployment in the United States for youth was about the same as what it is now. We have surpassed that.

These costly, non-productive programs have jeopardized our economy and placed unreal pressure on small business, the real engine of growth and the only solution to job creation. These programs have led to high taxation. They have bled the country and business by not allowing for hiring and the expansion of youth training and actual youth employment. Excessive taxation, a lack of incentive for investment and no reward for risk by the Government has led to the horror story we see today.

There are solutions. The first one I would like to talk about is co-op education. I have visited Douglas College in my riding and Douglas College in the riding of New Westminster-Coquitlam. What is continually pointed out is the lack of understanding by the federal Government in dealing with the other two levels, the educators and the province.

The Hon. Member for Kingston and the Islands (Miss MacDonald) demanded an amendment to Bill C-12, urging the federal Government to negotiate with provincial education ministers and provincial educators, as agreed to by the Secretary of State (Mr. Joyal). That was raised in the House yesterday. All of this has taken so much time that we are now in the midst of a crisis and the Government is trying to adjust. We have been saying this for the last nine months that I have been here.

The Hon. Member for Eglinton-Lawrence talked about training. You can train everybody in the world to the highest degree, but if they have no job to go to and there is not a sound basis for an economy in which small business can develop, such training is useless.

We have pointed out a solution time after time in this House with regard to youth employment, namely our resources. Youth are adaptable to reforestation employment and physical work. The long-term effects of farming our forests instead of mining them would be beneficial in years to come as well as solving the problem at the present time.

May I call it one o'clock, Mr. Speaker?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   BUSINESS OF SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   ALLOTTED DAY, S.O. 62-NON-CONFIDENCE MOTION-YOUTH EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES
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May 24, 1984