Mr. David Kilgour (Edmonton-Strathcona):

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of SUCO representatives, I got in touch with the Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. MacEachen) to get answers to certain questions, including this one: How does he explain that the Canadian Organization for Solidarity and Development already receives funds from CIDA, although it has been in existence for only a few months and several of its administrators are directly responsible for SUCO's huge deficit of the last fiscal year?

Why does CIDA reject the position of the Canadian Council for International Cooperation, the Quebec Association of International Cooperation Organizations and many other nongovernment organizations in favour of negotiated solutions? And why does CIDA refuse to accept in the case of SUCO

March 21, 1984

certain solutions which in the past were acceptable in the case of other non-government organizations?

Since funds will no longer be allocated to SUCO as of April 1, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of Quebecers directly involved, I am asking the Minister to give me precise answers to precise questions.

If I may, Mr. Speaker, I should like to draw attention to the presence in the gallery of several young Canadians who are members of the Youth Forum-

Mr. Nelson A. Riis (Kamloops-Shuswap):

Mr. Speaker, in World War I, World War II, and during the Korean conflict, hundreds of thousands of Canadians came forward to serve their country and were prepared to give their lives to ensure that future generations of Canadians would live in freedom and peace in a democratic country. Today, many veterans, many veterans' widows, and many veterans' families depend solely on the pensions and allowances provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs. These pensions and allowances are inadequate to meet their financial needs satisfactorily, and in parts of British Columbia these inadequate cheques often arrive many days late. For many individuals and their families this results in their not having sufficient funds to purchase food. It also forces veterans to stand in line-ups at local food banks, and to use welfare food vouchers.

These humiliating experiences are inexcusable. Our war veterans, their widows and their families, deserve much better. I urge the Minister for Veterans Affairs to take steps immediately so that those who were prepared to die for their country are able to live out their lives in dignity. They should be provided with a pension adequate to meet their needs, and the Minister should ensure that their cheques are mailed to arrive on time.

Mr. Dave Nickerson (Western Arctic):

Mr. Speaker, yearly the volume of shipping in Canadian Arctic waters increases, to the extent that it has now become commonplace. Merchant vessels and specialized offshore oil and gas explanatory equipment ply the waters, and we can look forward to the day when the Northwest Passage will be a well established and viable international trade route. To encourage these developments and ensure safety to mariners, the Government of Canada should continue to promote more detailed hydrographic sur-

Oral Questions

veys, improved weather forecasting and ice reconnaissance, together with better electronic navigation systems.

The Canadian Coast Guard is to be complimented on its desire to increase Arctic ship safety, and on its plan to acquire icebreakers designed to Arctic specifications. The administration of the Coast Guard should be changed in due course to establish a northern region with headquarters in the North, in order to eliminate the problems caused by the present fraction-alization of jurisdiction in the Arctic by the existing regional offices.

Furthermore, we need improved international co-operation between Canada, the United States, and Denmark, the states which border the Arctic Ocean and Northwest Passage.

Hon. James A. McGrath (St. John's East):

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Finance. Yesterday in the House the Minister said in reply to my colleague, the Hon. Member for Halton, and I quote from page 2240 of Hansard:

For us the small business sector is the most important element in terms of job creation. We have shown our determination to support it with the measures in the Budgets of last April and last February.

I can agree with the Minister on that, Mr. Speaker. Two-thirds of the jobs in this country are created by the small business sector. But how does the Minister expect the small business sector to expand and create new jobs when, in the Minister's own estimation, interest rates will continue to go up?

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, if my friend checks what I said in the House yesterday, he will see that I have not indicated that interest rates will continue to go up. I have indicated that, if interest rates in the United States increase, it will be very difficult for Canada to keep interest rates lower than those in the United States for any extended period.

I have not forecast continuing increases in interest rates. The evolution of the situation will very much depend also on what will happen in the United States over the next few weeks and months.

Hon. James A. McGrath (St. John's East):

Mr. Speaker, if interest rates continue to expand-and this is not strictly hypothetical-this will more than offset what little there was

March 21, 1984

Oral Questions

in the last two Budgets to provide incentives to the small business sector to expand. In view of the fact that unemployment in this country continues to increase, whereas in the United States it continues to go down, what steps does the Minister propose to take, what leadership does he intend to provide, to offset high interest rates and to allow the small business sector to expand to provide jobs for the million and a half people in this country who are in danger of being left behind?

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, my friend starts his question by saying "if' interest rates continue to increase. That is obviously a hypothetical question, and we will have to see whether or not it is verified over the next few weeks and months. Interest rates have gone up half a point-

Mr. Blenkarn:

They have gone up a whole point in the last three weeks.

Mr. Lalonde:

If they had gone down half a point I do not think my friend would have said that this was a fantastic factor for growth and that all our problems will be resolved. On the other hand, because interest rates have gone up half a point, there is no reason to believe the recovery has come to a halt or that we will know a recession.

There are movements in interest rates, and we are trying to keep those movements to the minimum on the upward side. I hope that the situation in the United States will stabilize without generating further increases in interest rates in that country. If that were to be the case, we would be in a position to have no further increases in our country either.

As far as the Hon. Member's reference to unemployment is concerned, obviously we are very concerned about the number of unemployed in our country. However, I want to remind my friend again that employment has also increased quite significantly in our country. As of last month we have created 54,000 new jobs. I hope we will continue to do so over the next several months.

Hon. James A. McGrath (St. John's East):

Mr. Speaker, the dollar continues to hover around 78 cents. The Minister knows in that kind of scenario interest rates have to go up.

Since the Minister continues to compare our situation with that of the U.S., can he explain how it is in the last three months unemployment in Canada continued to increase, whereas in the U.S. it continues to decline? It is now below 8 per cent. The U.S. employment rate is about 2.8 per cent ahead of where it was when the recession started, and we are 1.3 per cent behind. Can the Minister explain why we continue to fall behind and the U.S. continues to move ahead?