February 20, 1984

LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

The period for questions has ended.

February 20, 1984

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

Robert Joseph Ogle

New Democratic Party

Mr. Bob Ogle (Saskatoon East):

Mr. Speaker, 1 would be willing to commence my remarks now or call it one o'clock, depending upon the will of the House.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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LIB

Robert Phillip Kaplan (Solicitor General of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Kaplan:

No, it is 12.55 p.m.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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NDP

Robert Joseph Ogle

New Democratic Party

Mr. Ogle:

I am happy to speak to Bill C-9 and to address the three basic questions that are in the Bill. First is a proposed mandate to set up a new civilian service in Canada for the purpose of intelligence operations. Second is to look at the powers that it is suggested the service will have. Third is to look at the oversight and accountability mechanisms that would be established in the Bill or that are established there now to see that the Bill functions and that the service is given limits of operation.

I want to address the Bill from a philosophical point of view. I would also like to use some of my experience, having lived in countries where intelligence services had a very high profile. I felt that instead of bringing security to people, it brought great insecurity.

I do believe this Bill and its notion is one that has grave concerns for many Canadians. I have addressed various audiences on the background notion of what is taking place in the Bill being proposed. I think it is important, to begin with, to look at the word "security". I personally believe its English context has changed in the last 15 years. When I was younger, security, I believe, meant a state of well-being that one experienced because of a whole variety of conditions that were present at that time in the person's life. Today security, 1 believe, means a process by which you guard something or set up walls against insecurity.

Let me outline a case in point. This House of Commons until recently did not have a security system. People coming to sit and watch in the galleries did not have to pass a screening to come into the galleries. People now have to go through mechanical surveillance similar to those installed at airports. However, I feel no more secure in this House of Commons from some attack against my person. In fact, I feel less secure than before.

The question has been thrown into the minds of many people, are we secure here? We had an incident a few weeks ago. A person came to the door at the end of the morning session. Our caucus was sitting here. The person tried to get in. The guards, the security people, whoever, took the person away. During Question Period the same afternoon the same person appeared at the door upstairs and had in her hand a bundle which she threw into the centre of the House of Commons. The proceedings carried on. I am sure many people watching television did not know anything had happened. It turned out the bundle was not a dangerous weapon or anything of the sort, but if it had been, that person had actually passed through security and had put us all into great insecurity.

1 have watched this process grow. I have seen how people put a wall around something to make it secure. Then someone Finds a hole in the wall and one then has to erect another wall. A place where this wall building has taken place is the airport

at Tel Aviv, Israel. Wall after wall after wall have been put up to accommodate this word security.

I see it is one o'clock, Mr. Speaker. I will continue to address the philosophical notion behind security after the lunch hour.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
Permalink
LIB

Harold Thomas Herbert (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Herbert):

It being one o'clock, I do now leave the chair until two o'clock this afternoon.

At 1 p.m. the House took recess.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ACT
Sub-subtopic:   MEASURE TO ESTABLISH
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AFTER RECESS The House resumed at 2 p.m.


STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21

OLYMPIC GAMES

PC

Douglas Grinslade Lewis

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Doug Lewis (Simcoe North):

Mr. Speaker, I would like to draw to the attention of the House the fact that achievements in any walk of life are a result of team effort. No man or woman achieves greatness by himself or herself, especially in an Olympic sport where it takes a complete effort by a dedicated coach who believes in the ability of his athlete, the support and encouragement of team-mates who know the individual has the "right stuff' to conquer the world, the love and encouragement of parents and relatives who know the hard work required to produce an Olympic medal athlete, and the proud support of the community which recognizes one of its own who brings honour to the community.

Those ingredients were all there last week, but they would not have come together without a supreme, championship effort by one individual, a true world champion. I ask the House to recognize the athlete himself, silver medal winner, men's figure skating champion, 1984 Olympics, from the riding of Simcoe North, Brian Orser.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   OLYMPIC GAMES
Sub-subtopic:   TRIBUTE TO SKATER, BRIAN ORSER
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   OLYMPIC GAMES
Sub-subtopic:   TRIBUTE TO SKATER, BRIAN ORSER
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FRANCO-MANITOBANS' RIGHTS POSITION OF PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE PARTY

LIB

Gaston Gourde

Liberal

Mr. Gaston Gourde (Levis):

Mr. Speaker, during the weekend, the Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party tried once again to obscure the issue of French rights in Manitoba when he stated that his Party's dissenting Members had decided officially to toe the Party line. The Leader of the

February 20, 1984

Opposition forgot to tell the whole truth, however. First, this is not the first time the Members for Winnipeg-Assiniboine (Mr. McKenzie) and Simcoe-South (Mr. Stewart) have spoken out against bilingualism in Canada, and the token statement made by one of the Members sounds like a strategic ploy. Second, only one Member made a public statement last Wednesday, and the Member for Simcoe-South does not seem to have made anything public yet. Third, Canadians would like to know what is happening to the McKenzie-Stewart fund, a subject that concerns all Canadians and which demands clarification.

The Leader of the Opposition should show the same courage and firmness displayed by the Party in power. Once again for the Progressive Conservatives, it was too little, too late.

Topic:   FRANCO-MANITOBANS' RIGHTS POSITION OF PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE PARTY
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LABOUR CONDITIONS

RATE OF UNEMPLOYMENT IN NIAGARA REGION

PC

Claude Girvin (Girve) Fretz

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Girve Fretz (Erie):

Mr. Speaker, it is high time the Minister of Finance (Mr. Lalonde) took off his rose-coloured glasses and saw the economic situation of the country as it really is. Fie has been raving recently about the fact that we are finally emerging from the doom and gloom of the recession, to a new dawn. In his Budget speech he quoted Figures which show that inflation is slowing and that interest rates are falling.

Will he now admit that everything is not sweetness and light? Is he aware that the jobless rate in the Niagara region is now at an unbelievable 17 per cent? Even taking into consideration the traditional winter slowdown in the economy, this is too high, and unacceptable.

The human tragedy is enormous. The Liberals have been in power for four years, and today we have 514,000 more jobless than when they took over. I believe that this is, in no small measure, due to the Budgets which have been tabled during that time. The Special Recovery Program is clearly a recovery for the rich and a sham for the poor.

In the Niagara region alone there were 10,499 on welfare last month. That is a lot of mouths to feed. If these people had work, they would be more than happy to take it. Yet there is no work. The Minister of Finance has failed to address the serious issue of job creation.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   RATE OF UNEMPLOYMENT IN NIAGARA REGION
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POLITICAL PARTIES

POSITION OF PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE PARTY ON GOVERNMENT DEFICIT

LIB

John Leslie Evans (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. John Evans (Parliamentary Secretary to President of the Privy Council):

Mr. Speaker, in 1968 the Beatles released a delightful movie entitled The Yellow Submarine. Through song, a story was told about the struggle between the forces of

good and evil. The villains in this work of fiction were the Blue Meanies, who were eventually vanquished by the good citizens of Pepperland.

It is now 16 years later, and we hear the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Mulroney) and the Opposition finance critic, the Hon. Member for St. John's West (Mr. Crosbie), condemning the Government for not immediately reducing the deficit in last Wednesday's Budget. When asked what the Opposition would do about the deficit, the Hon. Member for St. John's West said, "You have to be mean, nasty, and do all sorts of unpleasant things .. . that's why I'm not going to outline what"-Tory policies-"would be now". From this it is clear that the Blue Meanies are back in human form, but now it is the people of Canada who face the insidious nightmare.

The chief Blue Meanie and his corpulent, evil-tempered henchman from St. John's West, are the rampage. They are joined by the "slasher" from York-Peel and the "sour sacker" from Capilano. Together they are Canada's Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse". People of Canada, rally to the defence of the social safety net, and demand that the mean, nasty and unpleasant people across the floor come clean with their plans for the future of our country.

Topic:   POLITICAL PARTIES
Subtopic:   POSITION OF PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE PARTY ON GOVERNMENT DEFICIT
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PARLIAMENT OF CANADA

DURATION OF PARLIAMENTS

February 20, 1984