October 14, 1983

LIB

Yvon Pinard (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Pinard:

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. I am asking the Chair to declare this debate out of order, considering the fact that, as the Chairman of the Committee said yesterday in the House, there was an understanding among members of the Committee according to which-

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

Erik Nielsen (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

That is an abuse of the rules.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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LIB

Roderick Blaker (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Blaker):

Order, please. That is a dispute between, in this case, the President of the Privy Council and the Hon. Member for Nepean-Carleton. I need to have a motion of some kind before me relating to unparliamentary statements made on either side of the House, or something of that order, before I could deal with a point of order. I do not yet see a reason for interrupting the debate or for calling the debate out of order.

[ Translation]

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
LIB

Yvon Pinard (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Pinard:

Mr. Speaker, a dispute between the President of the Privy Council and the Member who was speaking? I quoted the member for Pontiac-Gatineau-Labelle (Mr. Lefebvre) Chairman of the Special Committee on Parliamentary Reform. The dispute is not between me and the member for Nepean-Carleton (Mr. Baker) but between the Chairman of the Committee and the Member for Nepean-Carleton.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
PC

Erik Nielsen (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

That is not a point of order.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

James Aloysius McGrath

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McGrath:

Why do you not quote what I said?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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LIB

Roderick Blaker (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Blaker):

The President of the Privy Council does not, in my view, advance an argument which causes the Chair to become responsible for interrupting the debate. The essence of the remarks made by the President

October 14, 1983

of the Privy Council are to the effect that there is a dispute between two Members.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
PC

Erik Nielsen (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

More than two.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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LIB

Roderick Blaker (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Blaker):

I know of nothing in our Standing Orders, nor in Beauchesne and other authorities, which would cause that to constitute a responsibility of the Chair to interrupt the debate or to call the debate out of order. However, I will recognize the President of the Privy Council again.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
LIB

Yvon Pinard (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Pinard:

Mr. Speaker, 1 am not abusing the Standing Orders and 1 am not questioning your ruling. 1 think you are probably correct in saying that if we adhere strictly to the Standing Orders, you do not have much choice in the matter. What we have here is mainly a matter of honour among Members, and if the Member for Nepean-Carleton (Mr. Baker) wishes to go on breaching the understanding that was reached among Committee Members, let him!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

James Aloysius McGrath

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McGrath:

I rise on a question of privilege.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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LIB

Roderick Blaker (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Blaker):

1 will recognize the Hon. Member for St. John's East on a question of privilege. However, I was about to say that that is precisely the route which would appear to me to be available. 1 believe the President of the Privy Council was referring to the Hon. Member for Pontiac-Gatineau-Labelle (Mr. Lefebvre), who is the Chairman of the particular committee. There might be an argument of privilege; that was certainly the argument I understood the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Pinard) was making. But again, even if there is a case of privilege, I would not know how to go from there to saying that this debate is out of order.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
PC

James Aloysius McGrath

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McGrath:

Mr. Speaker, 1 for one did not breach an agreement. 1 will not pursue that now as a question of privilege. I will wait until my colleague has concluded his remarks.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

Walter David Baker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Nepean-Carleton):

Mr. Speaker, 1 worry very much about the process of parliamentary reform when the Government House Leader stands up and, in defence of his apparent inability to accept the unanimous work of the committee, begins accusing Members of Parliament of acting in bad faith.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

Walter David Baker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Nepean-Carleton):

I think it is very important to realize, if one reads yesterday's Hansard, that 1 made a statement which reflected my understanding of the understanding that was reached, as refined by the Hon. Member for St. John's East (Mr. McGrath).

Report of Special Committee

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

Walter David Baker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Nepean-Carleton):

1 understand he spoke to the Hon. Member for Gatineau-Pontiac-Labelle (Mr. Lefebvre) and informed him-

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
PC

James Aloysius McGrath

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McGrath:

I raised it in committee as well.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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PC

Walter David Baker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Nepean-Carleton):

He raised it in committee as well, that at a meeting when the Hon. Member for Pontiac-Gatineau-Labelle was not there, nor was 1 there, it was made clear that there would be no concurrences while the committee work was being done. But that arrangement, which no one disputes, would be off when the committee's work was completed.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink
PC

James Aloysius McGrath

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McGrath:

Precisely.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STANDING ORDERS AND PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN FIFTH REPORT OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
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October 14, 1983