May 11, 1983

STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21

CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION

LIB

Maurice Adrian Dionne

Liberal

Mr. Maurice A. Dionne (Northumberland-Miramichi):

Madam Speaker, earlier this week the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) issued an open letter to all Canadians concerning the testing of the Cruise missile in Canada. While many of the comments I have seen have perverted the Prime Minister's letter, at least some of the print media published, along with their rather fallacious stories, the text of the Prime Minister's letter. That is not the case, however, with the comments made on the CBC "National News" last evening. Those comments were a total perversion of what the Prime Minister had to say. I think the Canadian public and Members of this House have a right to expect better than that from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

I would hope, Madam Speaker, that the newscaster in future would read such documents before he makes fallacious, vicious and perverted comments about them. I hope we will see the estimates for the CBC separated from the general Government estimates in this House so we can vote on them separately and some of us can express to the CBC with our votes what we think of its perversion of truth.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
Sub-subtopic:   REPORTING OF PRIME MINISTER'S VIEWS ON CRUISE MISSILE TESTING
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?

Some Hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
Sub-subtopic:   REPORTING OF PRIME MINISTER'S VIEWS ON CRUISE MISSILE TESTING
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RAILWAYS

PC

Blaine Allen Thacker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Blaine A. Thacker (Lethbridge-Foothills):

Madam Speaker, some 86 years ago the historic Crow rate was struck at one half cent per ton per mile to export grain from the Prairies. For some 70 years grain producers, the livestock industry, railway companies, and secondary processors all made money. However, during the last 16 years, primarily as a result of inflation, the Crow rate has caused an enormous distortion between the grain industry on one hand, and the

livestock industry and secondary processors on the other. The Minister of Transport (Mr. Pepin) appointed Mr. Clay Gilson who, with 12 commodity groups and approximately 60 or 70 people, came up with a phased solution which was balanced between the legitimate interests of the competing groups.

Then, Madam Speaker, politics became involved, which resulted in the Pepin compromise of last February. Then raw, ugly politics entered into it, which resulted in Bill C-155. That Bill is totally unacceptable to the livestock industry and is not in the long-term best interests of the nation. I call upon my colleagues opposite and in the NDP to make sure we do not write off that livestock industry because, if we do that to western Canada, we are going to cut off a lot of tax revenue for this part of the country.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   RAILWAYS
Sub-subtopic:   CROWSNEST PASS RATE-EFFECT OF PROPOSED CHANGES ON LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY
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WESTERN GRAIN TRANSPORTATION ACT

NDP

Victor Fredrich (Vic) Althouse (Deputy Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Vic Althouse (Humboldt-Lake Centre):

Madam Speaker, I would like to spend a little bit of time recounting a story, to make my point.

Some years ago a constituent of mine took over a farm after learning to become an experienced farm manager at university. He applied the most efficient methods known to man at that time, and ran the farm with a great deal of success. His First crop was a very good one at the lowest cost per unit produced for years.

At the end of the harvest he went walking around the farm to check out other things he could do to make the operation more efficient. He came across a little plum orchard that his father, and his sister who was a plant geneticist, had set up.

He noted that of the dozen trees in that orchard only nine had fruit on them. So, being very efficiency minded, he immediately went in with a tractor and pulled out the three that were not producing fruit. Since then there has been no fruit growing in that orchard. He killed the orchard because he pulled out the male trees.

I think this is what the Minister of Transport (Mr. Pepin) is doing when he introduces a new Crow rate. He is looking at the hole, not the doughnut. He has missed the point entirely, and I urge him to change his mind.

May 11, 1983

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   WESTERN GRAIN TRANSPORTATION ACT
Sub-subtopic:   THE PARABLE OF THE FARMER AND THE PLUM TREE
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NUCLEAR ARMAMENTS

LIB

Stanley Hudecki (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Stanley Hudecki (Hamilton West):

Madam Speaker, one issue which has been receiving the attention of Conferences of Catholic Bishops globally is the moral implications of the controversial use of nuclear deterrence as a means of defence and as a means of promoting eventual arms reduction and peace. But the average practising Catholic is confused by the number of statements issued by Catholic leaders on the subject of nuclear arms.

A quick survey of decisions reached indicates that in Italy no directive or guidelines were issued by the Italian Conference of Bishops. In West Germany, Catholic Bishops published a pastoral letter condemning the arms race but upholding the right to use the threat of nuclear retaliation as a deterrent to war. They also condemned the expansionist aims of totalitarian states. The Roman Catholic Bishops of the United States, who have the support of the Canadian Bishops, condemned first strike use of nuclear weapons and condemned the targeting of nuclear weapons against civilian targets. They accept as moral the deployment of nuclear weapons as a deterrent, but not as a purpose in itself-only as a step toward progressive disarmament.

Pope John Paul II, in his message to the Second United Nations Special Session on Disarmament on June 11, 1982, said, "In current conditions, deterrence based on balance, certainly not as an end in itself but as a step towards progressive disarmament, may still be judged morally acceptable". He went on, "I reaffirm my confidence in the power of true negotiations to arrive at just and equitable solutions. Such negotiations demand patience and diligence and must-

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   NUCLEAR ARMAMENTS
Sub-subtopic:   CATHOLIC CHURCHMEN'S VIEWS
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LIB

Jeanne Sauvé (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Madam Speaker:

Order, please.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   NUCLEAR ARMAMENTS
Sub-subtopic:   CATHOLIC CHURCHMEN'S VIEWS
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NATIONAL REVENUE

PC

Elmer MacIntosh MacKay

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Elmer M. MacKay (Central Nova):

Madam Speaker, I want to bring to the attention of the House another paradox involving taxable benefits under the Income Tax Act.

For some time in Nova Scotia, National Revenue has been questioning road foremen and other classes of employees of the provincial Department of Transportation in a dispute over the use of vehicles and rates of pay affecting taxable benefits, involving these employees.

On the other hand I have reason to believe that Massey-Ferguson, the beneficiary of many millions of dollars of taxpayers' money for loan guarantees, which the Government had to pay, rewarded certain of its executives for their success in negotiating benefits for their company from the Government. The rewards apparently consisted, in some instances, of trips abroad for these people and their families, in lieu of

bonuses. Has Massey-Ferguson been audited in this respect? Have any of these executives been audited, or indeed, have any of the executives included these benefits as part of their taxable incomes?

If not, we have two standards-a very strict one affecting many workers in Nova Scotia who are relatively low income people, while this company, which may be closer to an Edsel than a Chrysler success story, although I hope not, may be playing fast and loose with the tax system. I would appreciate it if the Minister would check into this situation.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   NATIONAL REVENUE
Sub-subtopic:   TAXABLE BENEFITS-TREATMENT OF ROAD WORKERS AND COMPANY EXECUTIVES
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NATIONAL DEFENCE

NDP

James Ross Fulton

New Democratic Party

Mr. Jim Fulton (Skeena):

Madam Speaker, as most Canadians are now aware, the Liberal-Conservative coalition of the right is in support of testing the Cruise missile and other nuclear technologies on Canadian soil.

Just as insidious is the recent decision by the Liberals to test H-16 at McGill University in Montreal, this year. This chemical is undergoing tests on dogs, rats, and pigs and, according to National Defence officials, it "would be used by our troops in the event that they are subjected to chemical attack".

The Geneva Convention, of which Canada is a signatory, is an international agreement prohibiting the practice of chemical warfare. Canadians would be naive to assume that the H-16 tests which are now under way at McGill University are being conducted solely for defence. Clearly, this synthetic replacement for atropine is being designed to respond to certain nerve gases and chemicals for use in warfare; most likely against civilian populations.

Perhaps the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) would explain to Canadians just what Canada's role is in the field of chemical and biological warfare, and explain to the House what situations he foresees where Canadian troops will be in contact with chemicals requiring H-16 as an antidote. Perhaps the Prime Minister would also explain the $204,000 order for chemical air burst dispensers in February, or the $109,000 in March for chemical simulators, while he is at it.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   NATIONAL DEFENCE
Sub-subtopic:   TESTING OF CHEMICAL
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SHIPBUILDING

PC

Robert Alfred Corbett

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bob Corbett (Fundy-Royal):

Madam Speaker, with the skill of Houdini, the Government has dazzled Canadian shipbuilders with promises of wonderful and amazing things to come. The shipbuilding policy announced last January was heralded by the Government as a program to save the Canadian shipbuilding industry. The Government has failed to produce even the slightest evidence it seriously intends to implement new policies that will be meaningful.

May 11, 1983

Two weeks ago the Government announced the Canadian Coast Guard Fleet Acquisition Program to modernize the aging Coast Guard fleet at a cost of $630 million over the next four years. It will be late June before any contracts are awarded, and Christmas before any work begins. In the meantime more jobs will have vanished from the Saint John shipyards and other shipyards across the nation.

The Canadian Patrol Frigate Program has been a mystical illusion. Shipbuilders have repeatedly urged the Government to move up the starting date of the Program. Delays in implementing the frigate program mean a needless loss of jobs.

Programs are being pulled from hats like rabbits, while jobs are disappearing quicker than you can say abracadabra. In 1981 some 1,627 people were employed at the Saint John shipyard; by Christmas the shipyard is expected to be a graveyard if the Government's programs fail to materalize.

Canadian shipbuilders are saying, "Quit the hocus-pocus and the shell games. Implement a new shipbuilding policy, spread the Coast guard work fairly throughout the country, and accelerate the frigate program." Shipbuilders want jobs- not another performance of the Government's magic show.

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   SHIPBUILDING
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS-DISAPPEARANCE OF JOBS
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VOLUNTARY ORGANIZATIONS

PC

Gordon Edward Taylor

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Gordon Taylor (Bow River):

Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Lalonde) betrayed the national voluntary organizations.

The Minister of Finance consulted with the voluntary organizations before his budget, and then betrayed them in his budget. The national volunteers requested that a 50 per cent cent tax credit replace the standard $100 deduction for charitable donations, but the Minister did not comply. He removed the $100 standard deduction only, thus hurting the thousands of people who donate to Poppy Day and Daffodil Day, where no receipts are given; hurting the thousands of hard-working volunteers who do work that the Government would otherwise have to do.

The removal of the standard deduction increases the administrative costs and mailing costs. In fact, Canada Post is about the only winner. It perpetrates the inequities in the tax treatment of charitable donations and fails to provide a stimulus needed by voluntary organizations. It is a slap in the face to the national voluntary organizations.

I urge the Minister to introduce the tax credit now or, at the very least, keep the $100 standard deduction until the entire proposal made by the voluntary organizations can be accepted.

Oral Questions

Topic:   STATEMENTS PURSUANT TO S.O. 21
Subtopic:   VOLUNTARY ORGANIZATIONS
Sub-subtopic:   CALL FOR INTRODUCTION OF TAX CREDIT
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ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

May 11, 1983