December 18, 1981

PC

Frederick James (Jim) Hawkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Jim Hawkes (Calgary West):

I am concerned about the social impact of this budget and the things that are not changed. There is no change in the relation to increased health care costs, the hidden taxes that still effect the poor and lower-income Canadians in a devastating way, and there is on the income tax side and on the capital gains side an attack on the institution of marriage or a reward for the dissolution of marriage. I am also interested in the issue of charitable donations when it costs rich people half as much to donate to their church or charitable organization as it does poor people. The rich get $100 back on a $200 donation but poor people get nothing or maybe $12 back.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
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LIB

Cyril Lloyd Francis (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. member is not permitted to make a statement at this point but he may ask a question.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
PC

Frederick James (Jim) Hawkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hawkes:

I wonder if the issue is closed or if members of the House can further petition the Minister of Finance (Mr. MacEachen) to bring some social equity for poorer and lower-income Canadians back to the budget. Is that a foregone conclusion-we cannot do it or will we have the opportunity-

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
LIB

Cyril Lloyd Francis (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. member should ask his

question.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Deputy Prime Minister; Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. MacEachen:

Mr. Speaker, of course, 1 disagree with the conclusions of the hon. member. It is my belief that the additional tax burden that has unue'ibtedly been placed upon

The Budget

citizens of Canada as the result of this budget, rests mainly upon the shoulders of those in higher-income groups and that in general, lower and middle-income Canadians are better off as the result of the budget. That is my belief and it is demonstrated in the tax tables that have been made available to hon. members.

With respect to the hon. member's reference to charitable organizations, it is true that certain proposals have been made in the budget with the objective of facilitating the disbursement of funds which are intended to be used for charitable purposes. Questions have been raised and I have agreed, if the House can make the arrangements, to have that question as well as a number of other issues studied by a standing committee. If hon. members have a better view, then I will be glad to consider it.

I find it rather strange that hon. members now have protested so violently against adjustments and proposals which I have made in response to citizens' representations, in response to representations from the Liberal caucus and in response to representations from the other side. What is democracy all about?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
PC

Blaine Allen Thacker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Blaine A. Thacker (Lethbridge-Foothills):

Mr. Speaker, my question relates to fiscal relations in the country. He will know that his budget provided for a cut of $5.7 billion in transfers to the provinces. As a result of closing what he called loopholes or investment credits, the provinces would have increased revenue of some $3.6 billion over the five-year period for a net loss of $3.1 billion. He has obviously reopened the investment credits and that will reduce provincial income tax. Is he going to take that into consideration when he is negotiating with the provinces?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Deputy Prime Minister; Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. MacEachen:

Mr. Speaker, if the provinces begin to acknowledge the benefits that flow to them from the tax changes, then of course it will be an encouragement for me to consider that question. Even though I made a determined effort in the budget to flow additional benefits to the provinces through tax changes, up to the present time they have not been ready to acknowledge that as an important factor in the over-all benefits to the provinces. I think I must get the acknowledgement before I begin to readjust the payments.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
NDP

Rodney Edward Murphy

New Democratic Party

Mr. Rod Murphy (Churchill):

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance. Unlike the Conservative Party, we have already finished our economic tour of the country, and have heard from employers and employees. Workers who work in northern areas have traditionally received some subidy for the higher cost of living and for food in these northern areas. I wonder if the minister is still going to tax those benefits despite the fact that the Canadian Petroleum Association, the International Woodworkers Association, the Council of Forest Industries and others are concerned about the development of the north, with those benefits which are strictly work related being taxed.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Deputy Prime Minister; Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. MacEachen:

Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the hon. member asked that question because it gives me the opportu-

December 18, 1981

The Budget

nity once again to draw the attention of the House to the fact that the remission order that has been extended has exempted such benefits from taxation. That remission order has been extended within the designated area to which northern benefits apply. I must add that in addition, the so-called housing loan provision was also exempted within that designated area north of 60 and isolated posts. That has been the definition we have used. There has been absolutely no change in the pre-existing situation with respect to northern allowances.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
PC

Erik Nielsen (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

Mr. Speaker, the release that the minister tabled in the House tonight lists 18 changes to the budget. Previously there were another three, so that is 20 plus changes. Any other self-respecting minister of finance operating in a western parliamentary democracy would resign.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

Question.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
PC

Erik Nielsen (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

My question is, for the good of the country, will the Minister of Finance submit his resignation in recognition of his incompetence?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

Have a merry Christmas!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
PC

John Allen Fraser

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fraser:

Mr. Speaker, if hon. members on the backbenches of the Liberal Party would calm down. 1 have a question. 1 know this is very agitating for them.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Clark:

1 have a question. No, my colleague-that is my colleague.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
LIB

Cyril Lloyd Francis (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The Chair is in the hands of the House. However, if the Right Hon. Leader of the Opposition

wishes to be recognized, the Chair will recognize him at this point.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   MODIFICATIONS TO MEASURES
Permalink

December 18, 1981