July 16, 1980

LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

Madam Speaker, as I answered in the House a few days ago, we in the government must be of the opinion and of the assurance that the whole pipeline can be financed. Otherwise, indeed we would be "damn fools" to authorize a part of that pipeline. That is why I say there is a value judgment to know whether the guarantees we have are strong enough; whether they are 100 per cent; whether they are ironclad or not. That is the judgment we must make, and that is the judgment cabinet will be making.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
NDP

John Edward Broadbent

New Democratic Party

Mr. Broadbent:

Madam Speaker, obviously we have "Mr. Flexible" as Prime Minister in terms of interpretation of the law. The law asserts very clearly that the guarantees must be in place, not can be put in place.

Some two years ago the Minister of Finance, who was then responsible for introducing the pipeline bill, said that one of the few reasons it was importrant to Canadians was that it would make it possible at some point in the future for Canadians in the south to have access to some five trillion cubic feet of gas in the Canadian Arctic.

Would the Prime Minister not agree that unless we obtain ironclad guarantees for the whole pipeline, Canadians in the south may never have access to our natural gas in the north, which we need?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

No, Madam Speaker, I do not agree with that. When the hon. member referred to the law, I referred him to condition 12, section 3, which does say what the hon. member says it says. But the law also says that under section 20(4) of the act that condition can be amended by the governor in council authorizing a decision by the National Energy Board. That is what the law says; that is what the law of this Parliament says. This is what we have to decide as a government: shall we authorize the amendment of condition 12, or not?

We are saying we will only authorize that if we are assured that the whole pipeline will be built. That, I repeat, is the value judgment. What is the nature of those assurances? That is exactly what this government is examining. I am sure that is what the people of the country are examining. As the hon. member knows, the United Steel Workers of America are very much in support of this pre-build.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

The government and the people of Alberta are very much in support of it-

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

And the "ironclad" workers.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

- and those who have discovered gas and want to sell it are very much in support of this.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

And the makers of "ironclad".

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

All these people who are interested in jobs for the workers and in further exploration for the benefit of Canadians are saying to us, "Look; will you study this serious-

July 16, 1980

Oral Questions

ly?" Our answer to that is that we will have to be assured that the whole thing will proceed.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

Ironclad guarantees.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

1 see the Tories are talking about ironclad.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

No; Lalonde did.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
PC

John Carnell Crosbie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Crosbie:

The iron duke did. Old iron head.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Daniel Joseph MacDonald (Minister of Veterans Affairs)

Liberal

Miss MacDonald:

He is just another Cromwell.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Jeanne Sauvé (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Madam Speaker:

Order, please.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

Yes, Madam Speaker, we will have to make the judgment that the guarantees are ironclad. When you can say an ironclad flip-flop, I am sure ironclad has a lot of meaning for a lot of people.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
NDP

John Edward Broadbent

New Democratic Party

Mr. Broadbent:

Especially you.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

1 heard the Leader of the Opposition use that expression, "ironclad flip-flop". Madam Speaker, 1 am saying to this House that we will have to have that assurance.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

That is Liberalism.

At the moment there are a number of possibilities being explored. One of the most plausible or productive is the export of oil to Mexico. There are a number of companies interested in that now. I am aware, and I am pushing and doing my best to support efforts in that direction.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink
PC

J. Robert Howie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Elowie:

I had hoped that where a general policy decision had been taken by the former government, the minister might be able to give us a definite date when he could make a decision on the principle.

Does the minister have under active consideration a proposal to close the Canadian Arctic north of 60 to all but Canadian-built or registered ships within the next five years? If so, when does he contemplate taking a decision on this matter? Is this decision part of the comparable program to replace the 20 per cent subsidy on shipbuilding in Canadian shipyards? Is it related?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   NORTHERN PIPELINES
Sub-subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-FINANCIAL GUARANTEES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TOTAL LINE
Permalink

July 16, 1980