July 9, 1980

CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED

PC

Harvie Andre

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harvie Andre (Calgary Centre):

Madam Speaker, may I put a supplementary question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources? According to the Prime Minister, the government is actively considering whether to authorize this pre-build section in spite of assurances by Senator Olson, the minister responsible for northern pipelines, before a committee of this House that such permission would not be given until there were guarantees for the entire pipeline, as spelled out in the act.

Will the minister assure the House that the government will approach Parliament to seek permission for a major change in both the intent and purpose of the Northern Pipeline Act prior to granting any such approval?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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LIB

Marc Lalonde (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):

Madam Speaker, I have already answered that very question in the House last week.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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PC

Harvie Andre

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Andre:

Apparently the minister is reluctant to give his assurance to the House at this point, Madam Speaker.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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?

An hon. Member:

He gave it last week.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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PC

Harvie Andre

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Andre:

The minister is aware that the purpose of this pre-build is to provide transportation facilities to carry the export gas approved by the previous government on December 6, 1979. The minister, then opposition energy critic, described that decision as "one that Canada will live to regret and it may go down in history as one of the greatest sell-outs we have seen."

July 9, 1980

Given that the government is now looking at ways to authorize this transportation or this sell-out, did the minister flip-flop on his own, or have his cabinet colleagues talked him into changing his position since December 6 last?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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LIB

Marc Lalonde (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Mr. Lalonde:

Definitely not, Madam Speaker; definitely not.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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PC

Walter David Baker (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Nepean-Carleton):

But you did flip-flop.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   CONSIDERATION BY PARLIAMENT BEFORE LEGISLATION CHANGED
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LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT

NDP

Ian Gardiner Waddell

New Democratic Party

Mr. Ian Waddell (Vancouver-Kingsway):

Madam Speaker, the matter of this pipeline is a serious issue and the minister should not get out of it. Let me put my question to the President of the Privy Council, if he is there.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT
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PC

Erik Nielsen (Deputy House Leader of the Official Opposition; Progressive Conservative Party Deputy House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

He is not all there.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT
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NDP

Ian Gardiner Waddell

New Democratic Party

Mr. Waddell:

It is quite clear, Madam Speaker, that in 1978 Parliament approved the Northern Pipeline Act which authorized a pipeline for American gas to be transported from Alaska to the lower 48. The National Energy Board has recommended a pre-build pipeline which will export Canadian gas to the United States.

Can the President of the Privy Council, the government House leader, assure this House that before such a fundamental change is made, legislation will be brought before the House, and that this will not be done behind closed doors by an order in council?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT
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LIB

Marc Lalonde (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Hon. Marc Lalonde (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):

Madam Speaker, I should like to draw the attention of the hon. member to the act that was passed by this House in 1978. If he reads the Northern Pipeline Act, he will see clearly what its provisions are. I have already stated in this House, and 1 repeat, that nothing will be done by the government that is contrary to the provisions of the act passed by Parliament.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT
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PC

Harvie Andre

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Andre:

The intent of the act is what we are interested in.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT
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NDP

Ian Gardiner Waddell

New Democratic Party

Mr. Waddell:

Madam Speaker, I have read the act in some detail. That is still not an answer to our question.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   LEGISLATION TO AMEND NORTHERN PIPELINE ACT
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ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-EFFECT ON CANADA'S ENERGY FUTURE

NDP

Ian Gardiner Waddell

New Democratic Party

Mr. Ian Waddell (Vancouver-Kingsway):

May I put a

supplementary question to the Prime Minister, Madam Speaker? I find it shocking that the minister will not bring this before the House. In light of what was stated in the throne speech about self-sufficiency, and in light of the government's own policy of "off' oil, changing basically the use of oil to natural gas and other energy sources, but basically gas, if the pre-build goes ahead would the Prime Minister not agree that the construction of this export gas pipeline would jeopardize Canada's energy future?

July 9, 1980

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-EFFECT ON CANADA'S ENERGY FUTURE
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LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):

Madam Speaker, the question is hypothetical in its form-"if the pipeline goes ahead". I can assure the hon. member it will not go ahead if it jeopardizes Canada's energy future.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-EFFECT ON CANADA'S ENERGY FUTURE
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NDP

Ian Gardiner Waddell

New Democratic Party

Mr. Waddell:

This is precisely what the minister was saying before he turned Judas on us, when he was in the opposition.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-EFFECT ON CANADA'S ENERGY FUTURE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALASKA GAS PIPELINE-EFFECT ON CANADA'S ENERGY FUTURE
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July 9, 1980