John Crosbie?

Mr. Keeper:

-the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles). To him I would like to pay particular thanks.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

My most deeply felt thanks for my being here tonight go to my family. I would like to thank my wife Lynne and my two boys for the sacrifices they have undertaken so that I can be here.

What are the boys' names?

Mr. Keeper:

David Samuel and Edward Stanley.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

Finally, by way of thanks 1 would like to thank the people of Canada for the opportunity to serve.

My riding of Winnipeg-St. James is a relatively new riding which includes part of the old riding which was represented by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre and by J. S. Woodsworth before him. This riding was represented in the last House by Bob Lane, who lived in the riding, as I have, and who is a realtor and a local businessman. I know that Bob did his best to represent the people of that riding, and I hope to do my best as well.

The reason I am in politics and in this House now is that I believe democracy can be made to work. By that I mean that the will of the people can be made to be felt and that the needs of the people can be met. I believe that democracy does not just happen but that it must be made to function. That is why we are here. If we can make it function, then we hold out the possibility for the full flowering of the human person.

The riding I represent contains a great variety of people. It is an urban riding, and I would like to take note of the various groupings which exist in it. There is a fairly large number of small business people in my riding who, at the present time, are suffering from the high level of interest rates. The riding contains a considerable number of working people, both organized and unorganized, who are suffering most particularly hard from unemployment at this time. Students make up a

April 22, 1980

significant part of the population. These students attend both university and community college. Their tuition fees are too high, and their living allowances are too low. Immigrants and new citizens are in large numbers, and they seek an open immigration policy which, as we all know, can only in the final analysis be based upon a strong and vibrant economy.

Women are also a very important group. They seek not so much to be treated as men but as full and equal persons. They seek equality in the work place, and adequate family services such as child care. Public servants and armed forces personnel who live in my riding seek not to be scapegoats or to be ignored. Native Indian people-and there are a number in my riding-need their basic needs, such as housing and jobs, to be met. Franco-Manitobans seek equality and cultural affirmation. Pensioners faced with ever-rising costs of living need adequate incomes.

Home owners are faced with the spectre of exorbitant mortgage rates, and every citizen of my riding is faced with the ever rising cost of living due to continuing oil price increases and interest rates and the general lack of sensitive management of the economy.

I would like to turn my attention now to the substance of the throne speech, which is the focus of my remarks tonight. I would like to begin by mentioning the reference to the handicapped, and the amendments to the Human Rights Act which are projected therein. I must say that I welcome this item, and I urge the government to act on it expeditiously.

During the campaign I attended an all-candidates meeting on a local radio program. One citizen telephoned in and asked all three candidates if we could give the assurance that this item would be in the throne speech. 1 was not able to give that assurance, but I said that I would raise it in this debate. I am glad to see that the matter is included in the throne speech. However, being a member of the NDP and being a member of the opposition, I note that I am free to prod the government to fulfil this hope which has been offered. I am free in a way which a backbencher on the Liberal side would not be free to prod the government and, considering the entitlement of Manitoba in this administration to only one cabinet minister, another Liberal member of Parliament from Manitoba probably would not be able to move these things along at all.

Rather like a eunuch.

Mr. Keeper:

Those are not my words.

I would like to say, as stated in the throne speech, that I am willing to represent my constituents to the government. I am also willing to represent the government to my constituents in the manner that that is merited, and I am sure 1 will be given every co-operation in that regard.

Another major matter in the throne speech is the whole question of our very high interest rates. The throne speech mentions protecting those most affected by such rates. It is clear now that the government does not intend to do anything about interest rates in general. Its floating bank rate policy reveals a deliberate high interest rate policy. As an alternative,

The Address-Mr. Keeper

the NDP offers a low interest rate policy. We have called for an immediate reduction in interest rates by at least two percentage points as a first step to meet this problem head on and directly.

High interest rates are not simply a problem in general. They also affect specific areas of the economy and specific needs of people. I am thinking of housing, and the throne speech mentions that the government will help people who are having the greatest difficulty with renegotiating their mortgages. It goes on to state "without a major subsidy program." That would suggest to me that the government really does not intend to do much and that its measures will be simply cosmetic.

By way of contrast, the NDP has a comprehensive and, I think, effective housing policy, and I would recommend five points in that policy to the government. I will list them. First of all, we recommend that the government restore CMHC, particularly as a direct lender providing mortgage assistance in the form of subsidies for families with incomes under $30,000. Second, we recommend that we extend federal housing programs with special emphasis on non-profit and co-op housing. Third, we recommend that we promote public land assembly to keep costs down. Fourth, we recommend that the graduated payment mortgage, which perpetuates the problems inherent in the AHOP scheme, be dropped, and lastly we recommend that a federal-provincial conference to examine problems facing tenants as well as home owners be convened. The problems facing tenants have not received sufficient attention, with all the focus that has been put on home ownership problems.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

It would not be sufficient to have a good and sound housing policy only.

Before leaving the subject of housing I would like to say quite simply that without a sane energy policy there is no way people would be able to live in their homes and meet their other needs because of the rising cost of energy that will continue to make it very difficult for people to keep their homes and to meet their other needs.

In that regard I would like to say that the government must avoid any unjustifiable oil price increases. Judging from a reading of the press-in which I am sure we can place trust, at least I am willing to do so-we learn that the Liberals are beginning to back away from their commitment to lower oil prices. As well, specifically with housing itself, I read that the minister in charge of housing, the hon. member for York-Scar-borough (Mr. Cosgrove), hopes that the interest rates have peaked. I should like to say that people want more than the minister's hopes; they want effective housing policies.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

The whole question of interest rates demonstrates the government's attitude toward management of the

April 22, 1980

The Address-Mr. Keeper

economy. I would like to deal with high interest rates as they affect small business. It is mentioned in the throne speech that the ceiling for loans under the Small Businesses Loans Act will be raised to $100,000. I would say that that is a simple bookkeeping change, in the sense that it just takes account of inflation as it affects the size of the loan for which one would be eligible under that program. It does not affect the interest rate for small business since the rate under that program is the prime rate plus 1 per cent, and in this context we should note that business bankruptcies for the first two months of 1980, according to the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, are up as compared with the same period in 1979, by 24.8 per cent. These bankruptcies are directly attributable to the very high interest rates and to poor economic management.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

That is why I think that Geoff Hale, spokesman for the Canadian Organization of Small Businessmen, described the promises in the throne speech as a sick joke. Yet the government promises more. It promises other measures of assistance.

I must say that when I read the throne speech, it indicated to me, first of all, that the government itself recognized the inadequacy of simply raising the ceiling on loans for small business. It also suggested to me that the government did not know what it was doing, or at least it did not know what it was doing while it wrote the throne speech. It suggested to me that perhaps the Liberal government was going to reveal some of its unreleased portions of the election platform from the last election campaign. But 1 must say that last night's economic statement, the budget, or whatever you wish to call it, indicated that, no, it was not the election platform in the last election campaign that the Liberals failed to reveal but rather that it was borrowed from the Tory budget. The reference here to other measures must have been a reference to temporary small business development bonds. I must say that those bonds are welcome to the extent that they are an attempt to provide some relief from interest rates as they affect small business, but I think that approach to interest rates will prove to be better in theory than in practice. The theory is that small business will have access to loans at one-half of the prime rate plus 1 per cent. 1 think that practice will probably indicate that it is more likely to be above the prime rate, and of course the question is what is the purpose of the loans? I understand them to be for expansion but not for normal activities such as inventory. Also, the interest rates set under such loans are at the discretion of banks, which means that the government really does not have control over its own policies. There is no real assurance that the policy objective which the government set up in establishing these bonds will be achieved. A better approach would be sane, economic management, and a general policy of lower interest rates.

The federal government reveals itself in its throne speech and in the remarks made last night as having no effective small business policy. That is a tragedy because such a policy would, at the minimum, produce 100,000 jobs a year, as

testified to by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. The NDP, by way of contrast, does have a small business policy, and while I will not go through its details this evening, I would recommend it to the government for action.

I would like to indicate also that the rising energy costs will have a very detrimental effect on small business as well. So we must once again stress that there is no room for unjustifiable increases in oil prices, and by that I mean energy dollars which leak from the energy account, which are used by the government for other purposes than energy projects and by corporations for investments other than energy. Those kinds of increases in price are, in my view, unjustifiable and damaging to the community as a whole and to small business in particular.

The very high interest rates which we have now, also have an impact on employment. In this country and in the United States we have what is clearly recognized as a recession. The government in its throne speech mentioned that it will be expanding its employment programs which will be helpful where they apply, but I would be surprised if they are of a sufficient size to be adequate. Also, they are really no substitute for a policy and for management of the economy which would lead to full employment.

Also the throne speech makes reference to women. There is much in the speech which is worthy of praise, but also there are other parts which 1 think require closer scrutiny. The government has made a commitment to affirmative action in the public service, but it failed to mention the private sector, certainly in the throne speech. If the government has any intentions with regard to contract compliance which affects the private sector and the employment of women, it has not said that. In fact a good reading of the speech indicates that the government has no intention of doing anything in the private sector-I think that is a major failing with regard to achieving the objective of equality in the work place for women.

As well, there is no mention of providing adequate and affordable day care which obviously is also necessary if women are ever to take their full and equal place in our society.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

There is mention of pensions, and whatever increase in pensions is forthcoming certainly is merited, deserves praise, and is long overdue. But I suggest that it will neither be adequate nor will it remove the many inequities which continue to exist in the area of pensions as they affect women. Women constitute a greater proportion of the unemployed than men. If the government is to have a real policy for women, then it must place a much higher priority upon things such as unemployment insurance, manpower training allowances, and outreach projects.

The Speech from the Throne mentions violence against women. The government is going to take action in this area in order to protect women against violence. I think that is a good

April 22, 1980

move, and 1 hope that the substance of the government's action lives up to its rhetoric. Certainly women today will not be satisfied with words alone but will insist upon action, action which meets their real needs.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Keeper:

Very briefly I should like to say that the throne speech makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of the major social problems in the central areas of our cities. That is a very grave oversight. Also it says nothing with regard to the alleviation of the pressing problems of native people living in urban areas. That matter affects the quality of life of us all.

The speech made considerable reference to national unity. I would not want to deal with that matter in a partisan fashion, but I want to say a few general things about Canada because 1 think at this time it is important to remind ourselves that we can build a better Canada if we so choose. We need a country which is not torn by great gaps in wealth, either in terms of social gaps or geographic regions. Rather, we should have a country where the basic needs of all people and communities are met.

We must not have a country which is torn apart by cultural differences. Rather, we need a country which, while it stays together because of its common interests, acknowledges, appreciates, and celebrates its cultural variety, a country which rejoices in the full flowering of its people, a flowering which emerges from the freedom enjoyed by a people whose basic human needs are met. 1 am not only referring to the need for food, clothing, and shelter, but also to the need for security, the conditions for self-fulfilment such as education, recreation, and freedom of expression. Let us seek today to build a better Canada, a Canada that will stand the tests of time.