November 5, 1979

LIB

William Warren Allmand

Liberal

Hon. Warren Allmand (Notre-Dame-de-Grace):

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Prime Minister. Each time we have asked the Prime Minister whether he and his Quebec ministers and the Conservative party intend to join the pro-federalist umbrella committee under Quebec referendum Bill 92, he has failed to give us an answer but has merely repeated the same kind of answer he made to the last question, that he is interested in renewing federalism and he is going to change the status quo of federalism, mentioning lotteries and offshore mineral rights, the validity of which we question. In any case, he has failed to answer the question.

I want to know clearly from him whether he-along with his Quebec ministers-is, or is not, going to participate in the pro-federalist umbrella committee that will campaign for the "No" option in the referendum? Will he answer that question?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. Joe Clark (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, 1 am delighted to repeat the assurance that members of the Progressive Conservative Party will participate in the umbrella committee opposing the option against federalism in the province of Quebec. I am pleased to repeat that.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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?

An hon. Member:

He said the contrary last week.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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LIB

William Warren Allmand

Liberal

Mr. Allmand:

Mr. Speaker, 1 have a supplementary question. Last week, prior to the white paper, and repeated in this House, his Minister of Supply and Services said he may want to vote "Yes" or "No" on the referendum question.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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?

An hon. Member:

Another flip-flop.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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LIB

William Warren Allmand

Liberal

Mr. Allmand:

This was repeated by the senator-minister in charge of CIDA. He said the same thing and, as a matter of fact, the Prime Minister said in the House that he wanted to reserve his answer to that question until he had seen the question.

Since the white paper has been published, and in view of what he has just said, has he spoken to the Minister of Supply and Services and to the minister responsible for CIDA and told them that they are to vote and campaign for the "No" answer in this referendum campaign? Has he spoken to them?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Clark:

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to them. There was no need to tell them that. That was their intention, as I made clear in the House the other day.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   QUEBEC REFERENDUM-GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATION UNDER PRO-FEDERALIST UMBRELLA
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OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS

NDP

Reginald Cyril Symes

New Democratic Party

Mr. Cyril Symes (Sault Ste. Marie):

Mr. Speaker, I have just learned that the Prime Minister is about to give Canadians a horrendous Christmas present, and I would like to put the following question to him. Can the minister confirm that an energy agreement with Alberta has been arrived at as outlined in a document entitled "An Outline of the Initial Stage of National Energy Strategy," in which it is agreed that Canada will be paying near the world price for oil by 1983, namely, $29.75 a barrel, an increase of 120 per cent over the current domestic price; and does he not acknowledge that such a staggering price increase will deal a massive blow to Canadian consumers, workers and the economy in general?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS
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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. Joe Clark (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, I can confirm that an agreement with the province of Alberta has not been arrived at. 1 can confirm that my expectation is that it will be possible for us-within, I would hope, the next several days-to get agreement involving all of the provinces of Canada and the federal government in respect of a general energy package.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS
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NDP

Reginald Cyril Symes

New Democratic Party

Mr. Symes:

Considering that a source in the Prime Minister's office has said that the agreement is 99 per cent certain, I do not think the Prime Minister is reflecting accurately the current stage of the pricing situation.

November 5, 1979

Will the Prime Minister also confirm that these oil prices, which will cost Canadian consumers some $14 billion, will be shared under the existing oil pricing formula, thereby giving the multinational oil companies-which already have record profit increases-an extra $7 billion? How does the Prime Minister reconcile that kind of rip-off to Canadians, who in 1983 will be paying an extra $700 a year just to heat their homes and drive their cars?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS
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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Clark:

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. member will want to review Hansard to determine whether or not he intended to say he did not believe that I was reflecting the situation exactly as it stands, and perhaps change his statement later in the day or tomorrow.

To come to the question and not its tone, one of the matters that we are looking at, as we prepare an energy package, is a means by which we can establish procedures and mechanisms which will encourage a substantial increase in investment by Canadians in Canada's energy potential so that we can accomplish two goals together: the first goal would be to substantially improve the supply situation in Canada, thus protecting us against uncertainty in the future; and the second goal would be to substantially increase the degree of Canadian participation in and ownership of the energy industry.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS
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NDP

Reginald Cyril Symes

New Democratic Party

Mr. Symes:

Mr. Speaker, in response to the Prime Minister, if he were to table the documents which I have cited, we could take a look at the situation for ourselves. By way of a final supplementary, will the Prime Minister acknowledge that in a document entitled "Memorandum of Understanding: Alberta's Contribution to a National Energy Strategy", Alberta will agree to lend money from its Heritage Fund at commercial rates for future energy development, and that, in effet, Edmonton-not Ottawa-now becomes the capital of Canada as far as national energy planning is concerned? How does he reconcile this abdication of federal responsibility with the national interest?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS
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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Clark:

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member is looking for a document which outlines the removal, in practice or in principle, of the capital of Canada, then no such document exists. There have been active discussions with some of the provinces, including the governments of the provinces of Saskatchewan and Alberta, which have put forth a number of options which might be the basis of agreement between the federal and provincial governments. None of those options have yet been decided upon, and none of them will be decided upon until there has been an opportunity for further discussion involving all the provinces and all the governments concerned.

I can assure the hon. member that the ultimate decision will be very much in the national interests of Canada and will have regard for the fundamental importance in this country of taking steps today which will guarantee against Canada being

Oral Questions

exposed to uncertain supplies of energy offshore that we need for this nation to grow.

[ Translations ]

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   OIL PRICE AGREEMENT WITH ALBERTA-STATE OF NEGOTIATIONS
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FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL RELATIONS INQUIRY WHETHER GOVERNMENT WILL PREPARE PAPER ON PROPOSALS RESPECTING RENEWED FEDERALISM

SC

Fabien Roy

Social Credit

Mr. Fabien Roy (Beauce):

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the right hon. Prime Minister. Last Friday, following the release of the Quebec white paper, opposition members asked questions of the Prime Minister, who answered:

These proposals show that since the last election on May 22 the federal government in our country is not prisoner of the status quo, that it is determined to set out various approaches to the issue of federalism in Canada, and that it can, in co-operation with all provinces which it considers as partners and certainly not as enemies, demonstrate the possibility of a renewed federalism.

Since reference is made to a renewed federalism, it is then obvious that changes are being considered. If changes are considered there will be a need for negotiations. Today, I would like to ask the Prime Minister if he can indicate to the House what are the areas or fields of jurisdiction that his government is prepared to discuss with the provinces, and I would also like to ask him if a document has been, or is being, drafted; and, if so, whether that document could be tabled before the end of the year.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL RELATIONS INQUIRY WHETHER GOVERNMENT WILL PREPARE PAPER ON PROPOSALS RESPECTING RENEWED FEDERALISM
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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. Joe Clark (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, there have been several discussions in particular between the Minister of State for Federal-Provincial Relations and his provincial counterparts concerning specific changes in the constitution or in the arrangements between the different levels of government. There is no plan as such for changing our constitution. There is no grand design for a constitutional reform but conversations have been held and I hope there will be others during the next federal-provincial conference in December.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL RELATIONS INQUIRY WHETHER GOVERNMENT WILL PREPARE PAPER ON PROPOSALS RESPECTING RENEWED FEDERALISM
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INQUIRY WHETHER GOVERNMENT READY TO RETURN CERTAIN TAX FIELDS TO QUEBEC

SC

Fabien Roy

Social Credit

Mr. Fabien Roy (Beauce):

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a supplementary question. Since the issues raised at the constitutional conferences were only minor ones, and since there is nonetheless a problem which has been pending for many years and has been the subject of many representations, especially from the Quebec government and from many premiers, I would like to ask the government if, in its present openmindedness, it would be ready to return to Quebec all the taxation

November 5, 1979

Oral Questions

powers the federal government has appropriated during the war in 1942 and has always kept since?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   INQUIRY WHETHER GOVERNMENT READY TO RETURN CERTAIN TAX FIELDS TO QUEBEC
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November 5, 1979