March 16, 1979

LIB

Alastair William Gillespie (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources; Minister of State for Science and Technology)

Liberal

Mr. Gillespie:

I think that that is just terrible. I have been watching you.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

The hon. minister makes his finest contribution with a wave of his marshal hand. That is the most intelligent thing that he does. As a matter of fact, if we were in committee and called an adjournment we would be out, because we would not be able to hang around for a couple of hours until we got the necessary majority.

I am concerned about what is happening. I will go into some detail next week on this matter, but a motion which I had made was deleted from Hansard. It was deleted from the blues because it did not meet with the pleasure of those in charge. Once we reach the point where things which are said in this House and a motion which is made can be removed, then we are in a serious position in so far as this parliamentary system is concerned.

When I see this particular section, I simply ask one question. I am not going to speak at length at all. This parliament is a farce today, held over and over and over. Why? Because, to use the Prime Minister's expression-what is the word he used?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

Donald Frank Mazankowski

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Mazankowski:

Creep.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Creep. This government is afraid of an election. The Prime Minister travels and faces university audiences. I can understand that because there is some intelligence there, and they proved it by their reaction yesterday. Creep, that is what this government is doing. It is bringing forth major matters of legislation at a time when it is expected an election will take place, which has been postponed from time to time by the Prime Minister because he is afraid to bring in a section such as this. It simply places parliament in the position of being a pawn under the control of a majority government. I would have more to say about that were we not waiting to vote on this amendment by the hon. member for Northumberland-Durham.

The hon. member for Northumberland-Durham has stood and pointed out the danger. If the minister wanted to establish for himself a reputation for preserving parliament, he would ask those surrounding him to vote for this amendment. For if it is defeated, it is all over. The government can do what it will and pass whatever regulations it chooses, because at the end of three days a vote will take place regardless of the merits or demerits. Already having this power, why does the government

March 16, 1979

Energy Supplies

want to repeat it? It is this kind of thing which is causing people concern, and they are learning a great deal as a result of TV. They are finding it difficult to understand some of the frivolities. After all, we are always serious in the House of Commons or we would not last very long. A sense of humour one must have, but across this country today people are asking themselves: "What is the attitude of this government? They give us answers that are not true."

I have had questions on the order paper since November 12 and November 22, I believe, which have not been answered. They are perfectly simple questions. The only reason that they are not answered is that the government is afraid of what the answers will be and that they will as a consequence be embarrassed. Trust cannot be built in this House of Commons that way. Parliamentary underlings cannot be deciding what questions shall or shall not be asked.

I asked another question, I believe around February 15 or February 20, which will be of interest to hon. members from Quebec, about how Levesque got the Legion of Honour. It is just a question because I see a nice relationship between Levesque and his former pal, the Prime Minister. Why do we not get an answer? I asked the Speaker in a letter to do something, and he said that there was nothing he could do. Yet the other day in the House I found out in consequence of an admission that he had informed the CBC that only certain selective things can be placed before parliament.

Another example is the Treu case. Treu was treated like a reprobate. What about "Go-go-Goyer"? We paid out $10,000 for that matter without any justification whatever. 1 am simply pointing out-and it is as disturbing to me as it is to all Canadians-that we have come to the point where we cannot believe anything which this government says. It either refuses to answer when it will be embarrassed, or the answers which it gives are given with a total disregard for the facts.

I simply ask of the minister that he establish for himself a record of an appreciation of parliament not by wave of the hand but by simply saying, "We do not need the power, we are not going to push it through and we will simply permit this subsection (4) in the amendment of the hon. member for Northumberland-Durham to be accepted." If he does that he will do more for parliament than anything else he could possibly do. He could at least show that he has a respect and an appreciation for parliament and that he does not intend to ride rough-shod over an opposition that produces an amendment to a provision which he does not need. If he does not need it, why does he ask for it?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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LIB

Ursula Appolloni

Liberal

Mrs. Appolloni:

A point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the right hon. gentleman would allow a question.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I have no objection to questions, but we are trying to get questions answered by the government now. I hope she will be more successful in any that she asks.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The right hon. member did not accept the question.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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?

An hon. Member:

Yes, he did.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Yes, I will.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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LIB

Ursula Appolloni

Liberal

Mrs. Appolloni:

Mr. Speaker, a few seconds ago I was watching the electronic Hansard and I thought I heard a few references made by the right hon. gentleman to some deletions from the blues of Hansard of a motion he had purportedly made some time last week. I wonder if the right hon. gentleman would elucidate and tell us exactly which motion was eliminated from the blues of Hansard.

The right hon. gentleman has been around for a very long time and has been most welcome in this House, but what he is imputing and the impression he could give to the voters of Canada, as I know he will understand, is very, very serious. I wish he would elucidate.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Mr. Speaker, the question is a reasonable one and a responsible one. It had to do with a motion that was made in this House, moved by myself and seconded by the hon. member for Vegreville (Mr. Mazankowski).

The proper procedure in connection with motions under Standing Order 43 as I understand it is this: it does not require a seconder when it is made but once it is accepted by the Speaker then the motion takes place. I said that the Speaker, without giving me any opportunity at all, announced that it had been moved by me and seconded by the hon. Secretary of State for External Affairs (Mr. Jamieson). I rose and said it was not seconded by him, that it was seconded by the hon. member for Vegreville. When that did not appear on Hansard, on the blues, I wrote underneath what had happened, clearly and definitely. The motion, I said, was moved by me and seconded by my hon. friend.

That is the point that I strongly object to, because if we get to a point where motions that are made here can be deleted because they do not meet the finer sensibilities of those who today are in office, then we have ruined parliament. I have to answer the question.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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LIB

Yvon Pinard (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Pinard:

Who are you accusing?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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?

Some hon. Members:

Order.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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LIB

Yvon Pinard (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Pinard:

A point of order, Mr. Speaker. I should like the right hon. gentleman to state clearly, if he has a little courage, who he is accusing.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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PC

John George Diefenbaker

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

As the hon. member grows older and more intelligent, he will realize the answer to that question.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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?

An hon. Member:

Disrespect.

March 16, 1979

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   ENERGY SUPPLIES EMERGENCY ACT, 1979 MEASURE TO CONSERVE STOCKS
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March 16, 1979