March 15, 1979

LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

First 1 should clarify the point of order raised by the parliamentary secretary. Standing Order 48(2) provides that a minister of the Crown be allowed to speak for five minutes at the termination of the 90 minutes allowed for the debate, following which the mover of the motion may speak for not more than five minutes.

I have looked through the precedents and found that this point has never been contested in the past. The only time it was brought to the attention of the House was on April 17, 1975 when the then Acting Speaker mentioned that the only way the parliamentary secretary could speak after the 90 minutes allowed was with unanimous consent. The House gave unanimous consent to the then parliamentary secretary to the minister of justice, which did not create a precedent.

In my opinion, a minister of the Crown is entitled to speak under this provision. I might add that if a parliamentary secretary is allowed to speak for his minister, it is not mentioned in Standing Order 48(2), in general at least. In this instance the Standing Order is precise. But there is nothing to prevent the parliamentary secretary from speaking at this time to refute whatever he wants to refute because we still have a further eight minutes of debating time left. This would allow the mover of the motion five minutes upon conclusion.

March 15, 1979

[ Translation]

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Prosper Boulanger

Liberal

Mr. Prosper Boulanger (Mercier):

Mr. Speaker, I want to speak to that. In view of the few minutes left, I might not be able to go into as much detail as I would have liked. As 1 will be referring to notes that were prepared for me in English I will be speaking mainly in English about the cost of the documents.

The cost of tabling the contract documents as requested by the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre (Mr. McKenzie) would be excessive. In our view, the existing process of disseminating contracting information to the public has significant benefits in terms of prudence and probity in the use of taxpayers' funds and equity of opportunity for interested suppliers. For example, the supply administration's contracting system encourages government agencies to take advantage of the DSS policy to buy if something can be bought more effectively and cheaply in the private sector than it can be "made" within government. By wide dissemination of contracting information and opportunities, business is encouraged to increase its share of activity in providing goods or services which the government may have provided in the past. 1 will describe a number of examples of make or buy initiatives that are well known to Canadian suppliers.

Take printing for example. Printing encompasses the two distinct modes, the "make" manufacturing printing performed in the main plant, Hull-

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

A. Daniel McKenzie

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McKenzie:

Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat confused by your ruling. I understand we are awaiting a call from the Senate. Will I be allowed my five minutes of debate this afternoon? Will a vote be called? If there is a call from the Senate, does that stop the debate and therefore preclude me from having my five minutes of debating time?

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I cannot tell the hon. member when the messenger will come to the House. If a messenger were to come now, the debate would have to be stopped and whatever number of minutes there are left-and it is some six minutes, I believe-would have to be allowed after we return from the Senate, giving another five minutes to the hon. member. If that brings us past six o'clock, this debate would have to be continued at another time. So I cannot give a clear answer to the hon. member until I know exactly when the messenger is coming.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Ramon John Hnatyshyn (Deputy House Leader of the Official Opposition; Progressive Conservative Party Deputy House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hnatyshyn:

I have not researched this point, Mr. Speaker, but it would seem to me that, in accordance with the historical traditions of this House, if the messenger comes at a time that is inconvenient to us, we have no obligation to accept the message. It seems to me the business of the country should take priority, that the rights of commoners should take priority over any message which comes prematurely. In my view, this debate should be allowed to proceed to its logical conclusion, which would be reached before 5.45 p.m. If the messen-

Government Contracts

ger happens to be listening, 1 would think that that is the time at which he should come here.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

If 1 were to follow the suggestion made by the hon. member, I am sure the House would find itself in very difficult situations, because there would always be one member who would not be ready to open the door to the messenger, so it has been the practice that when the messenger comes we open the door.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Question!

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Steve Eugene Paproski

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Paproski:

Still on the point of order, Mr. Speaker, 1 should like to know how many more minutes are left for the debate, and how much time is left to the member who has the floor.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. member for Mercier has the floor and he is entitled to 20 minutes. I see the hon. parliamentary secretary is rising on another point of order.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Yvon Pinard (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Pinard:

Mr. Speaker, I will be rising in due course to answer the point of order raised by the hon. member for Edmonton North but 1 would like my hon. colleague to have the opportunity to conclude his speech in the four minutes he has left. I would remind the Chair that the hon. member who rose from this side started at 5.04 because an hon. member, an oil magnate was extended the courtesy of speaking longer than his time. In the circumstances I am surprised by the attitude of the opposition which wants to prevent the hon. member for Mercier (Mr. Boulanger) from continuing his speech. So, Mr. Speaker. 1 reserve my right to rise on the point of order after the hon. member for Mercier concludes his remarks.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Prosper Boulanger

Liberal

Mr. Boulanger:

Mr. Speaker, 1 do not intend to comment on the point of order, but that would be one of my arguments: we have already spent four minutes on question of procedure and I do not see why further time should be taken away from me.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order please. I do not mind if hon. members wish to continue raising points of order until six o'clock. I am adding to the time available for this debate. I have already given instructions to add four minutes, so this debate is prolonged until 5.40. If members wish to continue to raise points of order I will extend the time because the motion is entitled to be debated for 90 minutes. When we are on points of order we do not debate the motion.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Steve Eugene Paproski

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Paproski:

All 1 want to say, Mr. Speaker, is this: I want to thank you. I wanted to know. I am not concerned about what the hon. parliamentary secretary has to say or about what the hon. member has to say. We should like to know how much more time is left in this debate.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

My interpretation of the rule allowing for interventions and points of order is that the debate should

March 15, 1979

Royal Assent

conclude at 5.40, plus an extra five minutes allowed for the minister and five minutes for the mover.

The hon. member for Mercier.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Prosper Boulanger

Liberal

Mr. Boulanger:

I turn, now, to printing. Printing encompasses two distinct modes, the manufacturing printing performed in the main plant, Hull, and in over 100 plants and copy centres across the country; and the purchasing function which, through a consolidated purchasing capability, distributes federal printing requirements to the industry in Canada on a competitive basis. This year, over $130 million worth of government printing requirements will be handled by the supply administration. Some years ago, over 60 per cent of the printing business was made in government facilities with 40 per cent going to the private sector. Through a concerted effort by the supply administration's printing products centre-

1 guess I have to stop, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Ramon John Hnatyshyn (Deputy House Leader of the Official Opposition; Progressive Conservative Party Deputy House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hnatyshyn:

Nobody was listening to you anyway.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink
NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

Four minutes left. You are using the Crown to avoid a vote.

Topic:   THE ROYAL ASSENT
Subtopic:   PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Sub-subtopic:   GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WITH FIRMS AND INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN CROWN CORPORATIONS AND AGENCIES
Permalink

THE ROYAL ASSENT


A message was delivered by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable the Deputy Governor Genera! desires the immediate attendance of this honourable House in the chamber of the honourable the Senate. Accordingly, Mr. Speaker with the House went up to the Senate chamber. And being returned: Mr. Speaker informed the House that the Deputy Governor General had been pleased to give, in her Majesty's name, the Royal Assent to the following bills: Bill C-35, An act respecting the organization of the Government of Canada and matters related or incidental thereto-Chapter No. 13. Bill C-28, An act to amend the Northwest Territories Act-Chapter No. 14. Bill S-6, An act to exempt certain shipping conference practices from the provisions of the Combines Investigation Act-Chapter No. 15.


PRIVATE MEMBERS' MOTIONS FOR PAPERS

March 15, 1979