May 16, 1978

?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. I am prepared to respect that there were a few minutes remaining in the question period. However, there is clear disorder in the House with the allegation and the statements made by the hon. member for Joliette in respect of another member of this House. In the face of that clear disorder, no other proceeding will take place unless and until either the hon. member withdraws that remark or extends an apology to the House for the use of that unparliamentary language, or else withdraws. Failing his withdrawal, I will have to compel his withdrawal from the premises.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):

Mr. Speaker, the question has now been clarified by Your Honour with regard to the use of the word "liar".

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lambert (Edmonton West):

I put it to Your Honour, and Hansard will show it-some hon. members present will remember-that during the years prior to Your Honour's accession to the Chair the word "liar" was used many times on both sides of the House. We can pick on the members who did it then; some of them are no longer here.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

May 16, 1978

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lambert (Edmonton West):

I would suggest it is an unfortunate extension of the question of privilege in that it has always, in my estimation, been that no hon. member could accuse another of being a liar in the House or to have deliberately misled the House. The hon. member for Joliette said that the minister had lied to the Canadian public. I know, as I stand here, that certainly Mr. Speaker Lamoureux made the distinction that one could say it was a lie to the public, but not in this House.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lambert (Edmonton West):

1 have all the time in the world, too. An accusation of lying outside is certainly not an accusation of lying in this House. The privilege is in this House, not outside.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member for Edmonton West wishes to argue with the decision I have already taken. Rulings in respect of unparliamentary language are within the province of the Speaker. I heard the hon. member accuse another hon. member of the House of deliberately lying. This has been raised by that hon. member as a question privilege. I have found, unless the hon. member withdraws that remark, that I will have to ask him to be removed from the chamber.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The House will understand that in the failure of action on the part of the hon. member to whom I have extended the opportunity to withdraw the remark of unparliamentary language, it will be required that a motion, in the ordinary course of the precedents of our House, be put, as is the usual case, by the government House leader in respect of the withdrawal from the chamber or the eviction from the chamber of the hon. member who has uttered the offending remark.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

All hon. members are aware that it has become an accepted part of our practice, before arriving at this stage, that an individual member who refuses to comply with an order of the Chair leaves the Chair no choice except to name that hon. member. Once again, before arriving at the stage of naming individually the hon. member for Joliette, I am now indicating to him again, for the third time, that I have found the language that he has used to be unparliamentary and it must be withdrawn, failing which I will have no alternative except to name him and ask that the government House leader make the necessary motion to have him ejected from the chamber for failing to comply with a direct ruling of the Chair.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
PC

Walter David Baker (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Grenville-Carleton):

Mr. Speaker, with respect, I believe it is important that all of us have an opportunity to see the blues, particularly the government House leader since

Oral Questions

he will be asked to move a motion. This parliamentary institution will not crumble to the ground, sir, if we proceed with other business until those blues are ready. I believe it is important that we see them.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member would have a very valid point had it not been for the fact that the hon. member to whom I have referred not only made the allegation in the first place but, in a subsequent presentation after an initial ruling by me, he got up in his place and repeated the allegation that he had made, in substantially the same terms. It is not necessary for me to read the transcript in the face of that. Therefore, in the absence of any action on the part of the hon. member for Joliette, I am left with no alternative but to name Mr. Roch La Salle.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Deputy Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. Allan J. MacEachen (Deputy Prime Minister and President of Privy Council):

Mr. Speaker, because of the importance of the situation that has arisen I feel I should explain, at least to the satisfaction of myself, the proceeding in which I am now engaged.

It has been the tradition of the House of Commons that when the Speaker names any particular member, the leader of the government in the House supports the Speaker in that decision. That, I believe, has been the unvarying tradition of the House of Commons with one exception, and when that occurred the Speaker of the day was left in a very exposed, unprotected, and unsupported position. It is therefore my desire in discharging my responsibility to support the Speaker.

I would add that while the Speaker did make the suggestion that I put this motion, it is a decision which the leader of the government in the House makes on his own account, and he can either agree-

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink
PC

Walter David Baker (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Grenville-Carleton):

Move a motion.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
Permalink

May 16, 1978