May 16, 1978

LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Deputy Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. MacEachen:

-or disagree to move the motion. With that in mind, Mr. Speaker, and in accordance with the responsibility that you must discharge to the House, and in support of your responsibility, I would move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Basford):

That the hon. member for Joliette be suspended from the service of the House for the remainder of this day's sitting.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. It has been moved by Mr. MacEachen, seconded by Mr. Basford, that the hon. member for Joliette, Mr. Roch LaSalle, be suspended for the remainder of this day's sitting.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the said motion?

Some hon Members: Agreed.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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?

Some hon. Members:

No.

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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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?

Some hon. Members:

Yea;

5458

May 16, 1978

Oral Questions

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Those opposed to the motion will please say nay.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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?

Some hon. Members:

Nay.

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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Call in the members.

The Elouse divided on the motion (Mr. MacEachen) which was agreed to on the following division:

(Division No. 46)

Abbott Allard Andras (Port Arthur)

Andres

(Lincoln)

Appolloni (Mrs.)

Basford Beaudoin Bechard Begin (Miss)

Benjamin

Blackburn

Blais

Blaker

Boulanger

Brewin

Broadbent

Buchanan

Bussi&res

Caccia

Cafik

Campagnolo (Mrs.) Campbell (Miss)

(South Western Nova) Caouette (Temiscamingue) Chretien Clermont Collenette Condon Corbin Corriveau Cot6 Cullen Daudlin Dawson De Ban6 Demers Dionne

(Northumberland-

Miramichi)

Douglas

(Bruce-Grey)

Douglas

(Nanaimo-Cowichan-The Islands)

Alexander

Andre

(Calgary Centre) Baker

(Grenville-Carleton)

++YEAS

Messrs.

Duclos

Dupont

Dupras

Duquet

Faulkner

Fleming

Foster

Francis

Gauthier

(Roberval)

Gauthier (Ottawa-Vanier) Gendron Goodaie Goyer Gray Guay Guilbault Harquail Herbert Holt (Mrs.)

Horner Jamieson Joyal Kaplan Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre) Lachance Lajoie Lalonde Lambert (Bellechasse) Lamontagne Landers Lang Laniel LeBlanc

(Westmorland-Kent)

Lefebvre

Leggatt

Loiselle

(Chambly)

Loiselle

(Saint-Henri)

++NAYS

Messrs.

Baldwin

Beatty

Brisco

Cadieu

Lumley

MacDonald

(Cardigan)

MacEachen

MacFarlane

MacGuigan

Marceau

Marchand

McRae

Munro

(Hamilton East) Nicholson (Miss) Nystrom O'Connell Orlikow Ouellet Parent Pearsall Pelletier Penner Peters Philbrook Pinard Portelance Raines Reid Roberts Robinson Rompkey Roy

(Laval)

Sauv6 (Mrs.)

Savard

Smith

(Saint-Jean)

Stewart

(Cochrane)

Stollery

Symes

Tessier

Trudeau

Turner

Watson

Whelan

Wood

Young-116.

Clark

(Rocky Mountain) Cossitt Crosbie Darling

Messrs.

Dick Jelinek NeilDinsdale Johnston NielsenEizinga Kempling NowlanEpp Knowles OberleForrcstall (Norfolk-Haldimand) PaproskiFriesen Lambert PattersonGillies (Edmonton West) Pigott (Mrs.)Grafftey MacDonald (Miss) RitchieHalliday (Kingston and the RodriguezHamilton Islands) Rynard(Qu'Appelle-Moose MacKay SchellenbergerMountain) Mazankowski SmithHargrave McCain (Churchill)Hees McGrath StevensHnatyshyn McKenzie WenmanHolmes McKinley WhitewayHowie McKinnon WhittakerHuntington Muir WiseHurlburt Munro Yewchuk-62.Jarvis (Esquimalt-Saanich)

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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order please. I declare the motion carried. 1 must now order the hon. member for Joliette (Mr. La Salle) to leave this chamber pursuant to the House order that has just been adopted.

And Mr. La Salle having withdrawn:

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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Presenting reports from standing and special committees. Tabling of documents.

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PC

Charles Joseph Clark (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Joe Clark (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. As Your Honour will recall, the question of privilege was raised by the Minister of Finance before the end of the question period. In all fairness to the House of Commons, I think Your Honour would want to grant parliament the opportunity to have at least the seven or eight minutes left in the question period.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. It seems to me that choice was in the hands of the hon. member for Joliette, not of the Chair.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh!

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PC

Erik Nielsen

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Erik Nielsen (Yukon):

As I understand the rules, Mr. Speaker, questions of privilege and points of order are reserved if matters arise during question period until three o'clock when question period is terminated. Without intending in any way to be critical of the Chair, the fact remains that the Minister of Finance raised a question of privilege prior to three o'clock. It should not have been heard at the time it was heard. It should have been heard at three o'clock.

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LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The hon. member for Yukon raises a valid point, one that ought to be explained to the House. The discretion is in the Chair as to whether or not any question of privilege raised can be deferred until three o'clock or the end of the question period, or whether it is of such a nature that it ought to be taken up forthwith before proceeding further with the question period.

(Mr. Speaker.]

May 16, 1978

Obviously, with respect to a matter of unparliamentary language, as I dealt with yesterday in the case of the hon. member for Saskatoon-Biggar when he had made a remark which I found to be unparliamentary, and, incidentally with respect to the point raised by the hon. member for Edmonton West, I did not find that based on any accusation regarding the Prime Minister's conduct in respect to the House but on a general accusation, the hon. member for Saskatoon-Biggar rose in his place and withdrew that remark forthwith.

The fact of the matter is that once the Chair has drawn disorder to the attention of the House, the disorder exists and the House cannot proceed in the face of a disorder and a finding of disorder by the Chair. Had the hon. member for Joliette done precisely the same today as the hon. member for Saskatoon-Biggar did yesterday, the question period would have continued. However, the Chair, it seems to me has no choice in the face of a finding of disorder, in permitting the question period, or any other proceedings for that matter, to go on, when in fact disorder has been found by the Chair. That is a discretion which the Chair has to exercise every day.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ALLEGED INJUSTICE TO QUEBECKERS RESPECTING SALES TAX
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PC

Erik Nielsen

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nielsen:

Mr. Speaker, may I now be permitted to make the central point of order that I rose to speak to, and that is, that having proceeded in this fashion, and the question of privilege having been raised prior to three o'clock and considered by the Chair prior to three o'clock, it would seem to me, and I submit this to you, sir, that what your decision means now is that you take the position that we cannot resume the question period in that the infraction of the rules by any member, whether he sits opposite or on this side, is sufficient, if we follow this route, to penalize all the members of the House. I submit that that is not a fair way to proceed at all and that we should be permitted to continue with the order of business which was interrupted at the time, and that all the members of the House should not be penalized for the infraction of the rules by any one member.

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PC

Walter David Baker (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baker (Grenville-Carleton):

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, as reported at page 5409 of Hansard, this was your ruling with respect to the matter involving the hon. member for Saskatoon-Biggar. Your position was different today than it was yesterday. Yesterday as reported at this page you said this: Order, please. I will extend the question period by a moment or two to recognize two or three hon. members who have been attempting to be recognized-

1 am reading exactly what it says.

However, before I can go on, I will have to ask the hon. member for Saskatoon-Biggar to withdraw the remarks he has just made about the Prime Minister.

In that case, the member chose to withdraw. In this case the member chose not to withdraw. None the less, there are other members in this House who are quite outside the difference of points of view, and of the view expressed by the hon. member for Joliette, who ought not have their right to ask questions deprived on the day after you preserved their rights under a similar circumstance. That is precisely why I rose, sir. I think you should understand it.

Oral Questions

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
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May 16, 1978