Mr. Heath Macquarrie (Hillsborough):

Mr. Speaker, on October 22 I inquired of the President of the Treasury Board (Mr. Andras) concerning the move of a segment of the Department of Veterans Affairs to Prince Edward Island. He indicated that his colleague, the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce (Mr. Chretien), was responsible for such matters. On Thursday it was their colleague, the Minister of

November 1, 1976

Adjournment Debate

Veterans Affairs (Mr. MacDonald), who made the announcement in Charlottetown.

As I indicated in my original question, the date of November 8 is significant. On that day four provincial by-elections are being held in Prince Edward Island and it is generally conceded that the Progressive Conservative party under the leadership of a former member of this House, the Hon. Angus MacLean, is heading for strong gains in these contests. One is loath to suggest partisan motives, but I would have been very much surprised had the announcement been made on November 9.

I am slightly embarrassed that anyone should consider for a moment that the judgment of the P.E.I. voters will be influenced next Monday in four by-elections by a promise on something to commence four years hence. I can assure the House that the electors involved will come to their own intelligent verdict on November 8 and will not be misled by anything extraneous to their desire to elect the best possible candidates in the four by-elections.

In any case, as a long time advocate of decentralization, I welcome this move. I shall certainly extend a hearty welcome to those public servants who will be moving to my constituency. Prince Edward Island is a good place in which to live, and those who leave Ottawa will find a good and warm reception in the beautiful island province.

While welcoming this move, I must ask some questions. One concerns the number of Prince Edward Island people who will find new job opportunities as a result of this move. Ours is a high unemployment area. Statistics month after month and year after year show Prince Edward Island as being at or near the top in this unwelcome area. It is not a very good league in which to attain a leading status.

While agreeing with the principle of decentralization as I do, and while welcoming this particular aspect of it as I do, it is still incumbent upon me to ask some specific questions.

I take it from the minister's press release in Charlottetown that nothing will happen, there will be no transfers of personnel nor will there be any new job offerings before four years have elapsed. This is now the estimated time for completion of the new federal building in Charlottetown. We all know that not all buildings are completed on schedule.

If nothing is to happen for four years, one again wonders about the great urge to make the announcement. I did not have to be a major or a minor prophet to forecast, as I did last week, that the announcement was to be made before November 8. The Minister went to Charlottetown on October 28, 1976, to announce a move that will begin, not end, in 1980.

Speaking of the art of prophecy, the air over Parliament Hill was filled with rumors that the announcement would not be made until after the Ottawa-Carleton by-election, but would be announced before the November 8 provincial by-election contests. It was therefore not too hard to make a fairly accurate prediction, and this I was glad to do to help out my

[Mr. Macquarrie.)

hon. friend, the Minister of Veterans Affairs, by getting him a little extra advance publicity.

If members of the staff of DVA feel that they were not fully consulted, these important political dates will suffice as substantial explanation. Never has there been such a long period of time between the publication of the bans and the actual wedding ceremony. Even the most confident marriage partners might exhibit a little anxiety over such a protracted waiting period. I would like to know what is being done during the four years between the sounding of the bugle and the beginning of the advance.

We are told there will be new jobs for island people. What provisions are to be made for training? It is unlikely that new personnel would assume their offices immediately upon the opening of the building in 1980 or perhaps later. Therefore I would like to know something about what will take place in the four intervening years.

Mr. Hugh Poulin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member commenced by saying that he hopes the people of the island which he represents will exercise their good sense and good judgment in the by-elections on November 8. My understanding is that the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce (Mr. Chretien), who is responsible for decentralization, did not have this in mind when the announcement was made on his behalf in Charlottetown last week by the Minister of Veterans Affairs (Mr. MacDonald). If I may express a personal view, as the hon. member did a moment ago, I really do not think the premier of that province, Alex Campbell, the good Liberal he is, really needs much help other than that which he is already getting in the province.

As the hon. member knows, the program of decentralization has been strongly supported, and indeed advocated by the leader of his party and by earlier leaders of his party. The hon. member says he supports that principle too.

How are the people of this good city going to be trained for these jobs over the next few years? I submit, if the hon. members does not know, that they have the capability of learning this most important work and doing It for the people of Canada from Charlottetown. It is very important that those who will be moving from the Ottawa area to Charlottetown have sufficient time to make arrangements to go to what the hon. member calls a most glorious part of Canada. Others who wish to be relocated here may also have the opportunity to do so.

May I say that the bulk of those to be transferred are generally in the clerical classifications. The number involved in this and other transfers has been calculated at about 5,500 permanent employees and 6,100 temporary employees in the total decentralization program, according to the information I have.

The Department of National Revenue has transferred some branches-to Surrey, British Columbia, a Conservative riding; to Winnipeg, a Liberal and New Democratic Party riding; to Shawinigan South, a Liberal riding; to St. John's, Newfound-

November 1, 1976

land, a Conservative riding; to Jonquiere, a Liberal riding; and the superannuation division to Moncton, and the cheque redemption centre to Matane, also a Liberal riding. As 1 go over this list 1 do not think politics is involved, but rather it is an attempt to provide the people of Canada with the opportunity to be served.

Mr. Doug Neil (Moose Jaw):

Mr. Speaker, last Friday I put a question to the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) with respect to the report that the Toho Lead and Zinc Refinery in Japan was considering the possibility of closing down as a result of the strike at the Cyprus-Anvil Mine in the Yukon or, alternatively, was looking to Australia and the United States for supplies. I asked the Prime Minister if Canada was likely to lose this export trade, and his answer was a flat no. I followed this by asking if he would intervene in order that a more realistic settlement might be arrived at so that the miners could go back to work. The Prime Minister responded as reported at page 579 of Hansard:

I find it a little extraordinary that the hon. member should be suggesting to me that the ruling of the AIB and the Administrator should not be upheld

Earlier in the week I presented a motion under Standing Order 43 requesting that the Minister for Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Mr. Allmand) take immediate steps toward consultation with the Minister of Finance (Mr. Macdonald) and representatives of the Yukon legislative assembly to resolve the problem of the strike. This was given a resounding "no" by members on the other side of the House, and by members of the New Democratic Party to my left.

The Cyprus-Anvil Mine is the largest mine in the Yukon and when it is in full operation it mills some 10,000 pounds of lead zinc ore per day. The strike has carried on for some three months and at least 100 of the 410 employees have resigned or left. This means that not only 100 employees but also their wives and families are leaving with them. .

Early this evening I spoke to a representative of the White Pass and Yukon Railway, the largest transportation company in the Yukon. I was advised that some 250 of their employees have been laid off. These employees are in Whitehorse, Skag-way, and Vancouver. Of these 250, there are some 100 truck drivers, 70 maintenance personnel, and the balance are railway employees. In addition I understand that the shipping schedule out of the Port of Vancouver that was to carry this ore has been cut by approximately 50 per cent.

If you total the 410 employees out of work at the Cyprus-Anvil Mine and add the 250 employees of the White Pass and Yukon Railway that makes over 600 employees not working because of the strike. The total work force of the Yukon is approximately 10,000 people, so at the moment between 6 per cent and 7 per cent of that work force is unemployed because of one strike.

Adjournment Debate

The Assistant Commissioner of the Territories is quoted as saying that because of the strike and its effect on the trucking industry the territorial government of the Yukon has lost over half a million dollars in fuel taxes. The Northern Canada Power Corporation, the Crown corporation which produces power in the Yukon and is the largest customer of the Cyprus-Anvil Mine is losing some $200,000 a month as a result of the shutdown. This will have a tremendous effect on the rates of that company which recently during the course of the summer raised some of its commercial rates by 80 per cent.

Talks are continuing between the company and the union; both are anxious to resolve the problem and get back to work. Frankly I was appalled by the answers and attitude of the Prime Minister who does not seem to care about the possible loss of our exports of lead and zinc to Japan. I am particularly appalled at his callous attitude to the critical economic situation in the Yukon.

I understand that the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development will be in the Yukon tomorrow for the opening of the Yukon legislative assembly. While I am not suggesting that he should interfere with the powers of the Yukon assembly, I hope, while he is there, that he will apprise himself of the economic situation and seek advice as to how this strike may be settled. We are well aware how the minister conducted himself in his previous portfolio, particularly with respect to the penitentiary question. If the minister hopes to be successful in his new portfolio it will be necessary for him to impress on his cabinet colleagues, particularly the Prime Minister, the critical nature of the problems in the Yukon and the need for an immediate settlement to resolve the situation.

Mr. George Baker (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Revenue):

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member suggested that the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) should intervene in the industrial dispute at Cyprus-Anvil Mine-

Mr. Nielsen:

He did not.

Mr. Baker (Gander-Twillingate):

-with the aim of getting that mine into production again.

Mr. Nielsen:

That is a new version of the twist.

Mr. Baker (Gander-Twillingate):

The second part of the hon. gentleman's question to the Prime Minister suggested exactly that, that the Prime Minister intervene. He said, as reported at page 579 of Hansard:

. .. would the Prime Minister intervene in order that a more realistic settlement might be arrived at. . .

Therefore the hon, gentleman said what I suggested.

The implication is that if the Prime Minister were to intervene, to permit these workers to obtain more than the law allows, the workers would return to production. Given the strike record of that mine, where only the latest strike was related to the anti-inflation program, that is a questionable assumption.

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Adjournment Debate

Mr. Baker (Gander-Twillingate):

Is the hon. member asking that special treatment be accorded to these workers? If so, what would be the reaction of thousands of Canadian workers whose negotiated wage levels have been rolled back by the AIB and who accepted those rollbacks, albeit with no enthusiasm, and continued working? Intervention in this case would clearly be unfair to them. The anti-inflation guidelines on the basis of which the Administrator's order was drawn up apply uniformly to all cases referred to his office. Bear in mind that, in this instance, it was the union leadership who requested that this referral be made.

This is the point, Mr. Speaker-if I may say so without going into figures and facts behind the Anti-Inflation Board and the duties of the Administrator: The AIB does not have to follow the letter of the guidelines. It has been given certain discretionary power to take other factors into consideration. The AIB therefore was able to award the workers of Cyprus-Anvil more than a strict application of the guidelines would permit.

Mr. Nielsen:

Eight per cent.

Mr. Baker (Gander-Twillingate):

But according to the act, the Administrator must follow the letter of the guidelines. I repeat that the case was referred to the Administrator by the union leadership. It is open to either party in the case to refer the matter to the Anti-Inflation Appeal Tribunal, where the Administrator would be required to justify in a legal hearing the rationale for his order.

Mr. Nielsen:

Just compare this case with the one at Thompson last week.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order, please. The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at two o'clock p.m.

At 10.26 p.m. the House adjourned, without question put, pursuant to Standing Order.

Tuesday, November 2, 1976