Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. Before beginning the oral question period, may I take just a moment to bring to the attention of hon. members the presence in our gallery of a very distinguished group of people. I hope I will do them justice in attempting to single out one or two of my counterparts in the provinces. Perhaps the right thing to do would be to ask all of them to stand.

This week we are hosting, as we do every year under the auspices of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, the Canadian Regional Parliamentary Seminar. We have invited one representative from the Caribbean Parliamentary Association which is represented in the person of the Speaker of the Barbados parliament, Mr. Speaker Hinds. Mr. Speaker Hinds might now stand up.

Hear, hear!

Mr. Speaker:

In addition there are members of all provincial legislatures here, some of which are represented by their Speakers. 1 would ask them all to stand. I can say at a cursory glance that I know it includes Mr. Speaker Smith of British Columbia, Mr. Speaker Brockelbank of Saskatchewan, Mr. Speaker Ottenheimer from Newfoundland, Monsieur le president, M. Lavoie de la belle province de Quebec qui est bien occupe maintenant avec tous les autres collegues, and also Mr. Speaker Fox from Manitoba, Mr. Speaker Woodroffe from New Brunswick and Mr. Speaker designate Doucet from the province of Nova Scotia. May I ask them and others with them to stand?

Hear, hear!

Mr. Speaker:

Oral Questions

Mr. Elmer M. MacKay (Central Nova):

Mr. Speaker, 1 have a question for the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce. On October 25 the minister referred to an impending meeting between himself and the Chief Statistician of Canada. In view of continuing revelations in the Ottawa press about the extracurricular activities of Allan Jeffery Associates and, now, the assistant chief statistician, and the issue of whether or not there was tacit or implied consent for those activities by those in responsible positions, can the minister say whether or not the fact that no criminal prosecutions or major

disciplinary actions were taken reflects the feeling of the police or law officers of the Crown that it was precisely because there may have been such authorization, tacit or implied, no mens rea could exist in the criminal sense and it would have been difficult to secure a conviction?

Hon. Jean Chretien (Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, I already answered this question. I believe the hon. member put 22 questions on the order paper. I hope to answer every one of them by next Wednesday.

About the other civil servant mentioned by name by the hon. member, this person acts as adviser to universities after his working hours without using in any way confidential information related to his position. This civil servant has already made a statement on this matter and I see nothing improper in that, but Dr. Kirkham informed me that new instructions had been issued on this matter and I hope that the integrity of Statistics Canada will be preserved.

Mr. MacKay:

A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I share the minister's wish and do not intend to reflect on the integrity of Statistics Canada. Is it true that the chief statistician has now ordered an audit of all contracts entered into by Statistics Canada with outsiders? Can the minister give some information as to who is in charge of such audit or investigation and when we can expect its completion. Would the minister be willing to table in the House the results of such an audit?

Mr. Chretien:

Mr. Speaker, I have personally asked the chief statistician of Canada to carry out a full investigation on possible illegal or improper activities by government employees. His reply was that he was carrying out this investigation. I do not think that public interest would be served by any disclosure, as long as I am not advised that this investigation has been duly completed. However, from my conversations with Dr. Kirkham, I do not feel there is cause for concern about this for the time being, and I am sure that the integrity of Statistics Canada remains intact.

Mr. Elmer M. MacKay (Central Nova):

Mr. Speaker, may I direct a final supplementary question to the Minister of State for Urban Affairs? Can the minister indicate whether there were any transactions or offers of transactions between Allan Jeffery Associates or people connected with them and the National Capital Commission for the transmission of data for a price, and can the minister confirm that Statistics Canada employees provided information to United States consultants

November 1, 1976

on a commercial basis while, at the same time, denying information to the NCC?

Hon. Barney Danson (Minister of State for Urban Affairs):

Mr. Speaker, I would have to check on this information. I have no knowledge of it.

Mr. Walter Baker (Grenville-Carleton):

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question to the Minister of State for Urban Affairs particularly concerns his last answer. As the House knows from news reports, the then chairman of the National Capital Commission, a distinguished public servant, Mr. Gallant, raised this matter with a senior public servant. I would not think he would have written his letter and communicated as he was supposed to have done without some basis. I say this particularly since the communication, as was alleged in news reports, was such as to shock Dr. Ostry who was then in charge. In view of this communications having emanated from a public servant of the position, standing and prestige of Edgar Gallant, 1 wonder if the minister who since the news reports came out must have taken the time to examine Edgar Gallant can report to the House exactly what Mr. Gallant said- assuming that such an investigation took place. Also, is the minister in the position today-and if he is not in the position today will he put himself in the position-to table the correspondence which passed between the then chairman of the National Capital Commission, Mr. Gallant, and Mr. Gordon Robertson. Would he do that?

Hon. Barney Danson (Minister of State for Urban Affairs):

Mr. Speaker, I will look into the situation. I do not know the circumstances. It is possible I was aware of it, but at this moment I am not sure and would like to refresh my memory.

Mr. Baker (Grenville-Carleton):

My supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, is based on the answer the minister gave me today and gave the hon. member for Central Nova. Is it the position of the minister that after all the newspaper reports which have been published about this matter, and the distinguished Mr. Gallant's involvement in it, that he, the minister, is not even in the position to answer the simple question I put to him relating to the facts of this case? Is that the position the minister is in today?

Mr. Danson:

Mr. Speaker, it is Monday, and I had a very difficult weekend.

Oh, oh!