February 27, 1976

PC

Francis Alvin George Hamilton

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Alvin Hamilton (Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain):

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Prime Minister. In view of the Napoleonic retreat last night of the Minister of Finance from the silly and unworkable export tax on resource industries, would the Prime Minister now give an answer to my proposal of December 19 last which I will repeat for him:

... would the Prime Minister give serious consideration over the next three or four weeks to re-examining the whole course that the government is taking because I believe it is heading us toward a recession, and would he turn the whole program of the government around into one of expansion so as to give the government time to get at the basic cause of inflation, which this program is not doing?

Could 7 have an answer to that question.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could answer in terms of the reference in the preamble to the question. The hon. member surely is aware that one of Napoleon's most spectacular retreats, one of several days, ended in the greatest of his victories at Austerlitz and this is the way-

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink
PC

Francis Alvin George Hamilton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hamilton (Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain):

Mr. Speaker, I could remind the Prime Minister that following that victory at Austerlitz there was also the defeat at Waterloo.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

Because he attacked.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink
PC

Francis Alvin George Hamilton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hamilton (Qu'Appelle-Moose Mountain):

Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that the Prime Minister did not see fit to answer the serious proposal I made to him on December 19 about the direction in which he is taking this country, I should like to ask him another question. In view of the fact that current economic indicators show that the recovery of Canada from the recession of 1974 was checked in the last quarter of 1975 by the application of the traditional prescriptions of the mandarins of the civil service, which have been wrong consistently over the last 30 years, would the Prime Minister himself read Chapter 20 of the Porter Royal Commission, particularly the second last paragraph which reads:

The full growth potential of the economy will only be realized if appropriate monetary and fiscal policies are combined with measures to develop the economy's skills and levels of education, to encourage saving, investment and risk-taking, and to ensure that production is organized efficiently.

Would the Prime Minister commit himself to reading this chapter 20 of the Porter Royal Commission report?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink
LIB

James Alexander Jerome (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The hon. member for Esquimalt-Saanich.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   THE CANADIAN ECONOMY
Sub-subtopic:   SUGGESTED PROGRAM OF EXPANSION TO FIGHT INFLATION-GOVERNMENT POSITION
Permalink

ANTI-INFLATION PROGRAM-RECONCILIATION OF EIGHTEEN-MONTH AGREEEMENT WITH PROVINCES WITH THREE-YEAR PERIOD FOR PROGRAM

PC

Donald W. Munro

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Donald W. Munro (Esquimalt-Saanich):

Mr. Speaker, my question also is addressed to the Prime Minister. Since he seems determined to head either for Austerlitz or Waterloo, I should like to give him an opportunity to explain to this House how he has managed to reconcile agreement on an 18-month basis, as adopted by the four provincial governments with which some sort of understanding has been reached, with the three-year duration of the anti-inflation program under federal law? Does this mean that the program can last for no more than 18 months or is there some secret renewal agreement proviso included in the present agreement?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ANTI-INFLATION PROGRAM-RECONCILIATION OF EIGHTEEN-MONTH AGREEEMENT WITH PROVINCES WITH THREE-YEAR PERIOD FOR PROGRAM
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, there is no secret renewal agreement. It seems to me this question is in essence almost as unreasonable as the preceding one. It shows a lack of understanding of the approach of the government to this whole matter. We think three years is the appropriate time. That is why it is written into the law. The provinces in many cases just wanted to sign for 18 months. Surely it was proper for us to say: "Okay, sign for 18 months. There is an effective provision for a re-debate of the question in the House of Commons. We believe you will have to sign for another 18 months, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it." The important thing is to make the program work now, to have the co-operation of the provinces, and this is what is happening in both cases.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ANTI-INFLATION PROGRAM-RECONCILIATION OF EIGHTEEN-MONTH AGREEEMENT WITH PROVINCES WITH THREE-YEAR PERIOD FOR PROGRAM
Permalink

ANTI-INFLATION PROGRAM-DATE OF SIGNING AND DURATION OF AGREEMENT WITH PROVINCES

PC

Donald W. Munro

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Donald W. Munro (Esquimalt-Saanich):

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is further to this whole debate. Can the Prime Minister say whether he anticipates early settlements with the other six provinces on either a three-year term or on an 18-month basis and can he feel even reasonably certain that the program will really get under way and be effective even if the remaining six do not sign? What about the 100 per cent rate hikes by the British Columbia car insurance corporation?

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ANTI-INFLATION PROGRAM-DATE OF SIGNING AND DURATION OF AGREEMENT WITH PROVINCES
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Right Hon. P. E. Trudeau (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, the House will recall that the federal government was enjoined by the provinces at two interprovincial meetings of premiers in a row, last year and the year before, to do something very energetic, to take leadership in fighting inflation, and so on, and they indicated that they would co-operate. We took the decision in the month of October last. The provinces and the federal government have been putting together these agreements. Three or so have been signed, and several others will be signed in an interim form. It is possible that we will have difficulties with one or two signatures-they might take more than a few days to get, but the program is in place; it is working; it is the federal law and it is compelling on the Canadian people.

We hope the provinces will co-operate with us in every way, as they have indicated their intention of doing and as the premiers indicated their intention of doing at the

February 27, 1976

meeting at my house at 24 Sussex on October 13. They are taking some time to get around to signing some of the agreements, but the important thing is that the program is in place, the Anti-Inflation Board is operating, and inflation is being tackled in a most serious way.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   ANTI-INFLATION PROGRAM-DATE OF SIGNING AND DURATION OF AGREEMENT WITH PROVINCES
Permalink

EXTERNAL AFFAIRS

NDP

John Edward Broadbent

New Democratic Party

Mr. Edward Broadbent (Oshawa-Whitby):

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Secretary of State for External Affairs. In the House yesterday with reference to negotiations that are going on between Canada and Pakistan concerning nuclear safeguards, the minister said:

What is of concern to Canada ... is the spent fuel that comes out of the Canadian reactor and that may subsequently be reprocessed in the facility provided by France.

I should like to ask the minister now whether he will assure the House that no further shipments of uranium from Canada to Pakistan will take place unless Pakistan accepts the point that Canadian safeguards apply not merely to the CANDU reactor provided by Canada but also to the use of spent fuel from the Canadian reactor now in Pakistan.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PAKISTAN-SAFEGUARDS FOR SPENT FUEL FROM CANDU REACTOR
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Hon. Allan J. MacEachen (Secretary of State for External Affairs):

Mr. Speaker, the negotiations between the Canadian team and the Pakistani team are still underway. I had a detailed report this morning about the progress that has been made, and of course one of the items still under negotiations is the very point that the hon. member has raised this morning and to which I referred yesterday. The hon. member is suggesting that Canada withhold its supplies of uranium or fuel to Pakistan in order-

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PAKISTAN-SAFEGUARDS FOR SPENT FUEL FROM CANDU REACTOR
Permalink
NDP

John Edward Broadbent

New Democratic Party

Mr. Broadbent:

Unless you get that guarantee.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PAKISTAN-SAFEGUARDS FOR SPENT FUEL FROM CANDU REACTOR
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MacEachen:

-in order to bring Pakistan to the point of cancelling a contract which, I understand, has been entered into with the French government. That is a possibility, but I think the hon. member should understand the implications for Pakistan if Canada at this point withdrew its fuel from the CANDU power reactor and cut off the supply of electricity for the city of Karachi. I believe that is a step which the hon. member and I would like to ponder very carefully before it is taken.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PAKISTAN-SAFEGUARDS FOR SPENT FUEL FROM CANDU REACTOR
Permalink
NDP

John Edward Broadbent

New Democratic Party

Mr. Broadbent:

Notwithstanding the legitimate concern which the minister expressed about the power situation for the city of Karachi, I should like to ask the minister the following question. Given, to say the least, the equal concern from the point of view of everyone in the world to stop the development of nuclear weapons, would the minister not agree that unless we get the most stringent guarantees from the government of Pakistan which would totally inhibit the use of Canadian-provided material for the development of nuclear weapons, we should not proceed in any way with further shipments of uranium material to that country?

Oral Questions

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PAKISTAN-SAFEGUARDS FOR SPENT FUEL FROM CANDU REACTOR
Permalink
LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. MacEachen:

Well, the hon. member understands that there is presently in Pakistan the Canadian supplied power reactor. At the time that reactor was put in place certain safeguards were negotiated between Canada and Pakistan, and at this point the purpose of the Canadian effort is to upgrade existing safeguard agreements which were previously entered into between Canada and Pakistan affecting that particular installation. We are doing our level best, and I believe we will make considerable progress in upgrading those safeguards.

I believe the hon. member should bear in mind as well that, as I understand it, there has been a safeguards agreement negotiated between France and Pakistan relating to the processing plant. These safeguards are of London Club quality and have been approved by the International Atomic Energy Agency, so that processing plant is actually safeguarded under internationally approved standards.

Topic:   ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PAKISTAN-SAFEGUARDS FOR SPENT FUEL FROM CANDU REACTOR
Permalink

February 27, 1976