Mr. Florian Cote (Richelieu):

Mr. Speaker, at this late hour, I shall try to be very brief and perhaps overlook all

that has been said since the start of the sitting which, to my mind has lasted much too long.

Contrary to some of my colleagues, I am not so pleased with the debate held tonight. For some, it was a happy occasion because they were able to express themselves. If I were the hon. member for Shefford (Mr. Rondeau), I would be happy because, as he said, he learned something from the Liberals tonight.

Mr. Rondeau:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Mr. Boulanger:

No points of order are allowed after two

o'clock.

It is too late.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order. The hon. member for Shefford on a point of order.

Mr. Rondeau:

Mr. Speaker, I should like to point out to the House that the only thing I learned tonight from the Liberal members, is that two of them I suspected of having Le Page glue on their seats, finally managed to prove that it was not so.

Mr. Cote:

Just as he does not know anything in agriculture, he does not know what a point of order is, because he would not have risen to say what he has just said.

As I said earlier, I have not learned anything from what has been said tonight, except that I fear there was more harm than good done to the farming community, to the consumer and to the negociations where tension will increase because everyone looks up, because there might be "exploitation" at some time. I shall be very glad if it is not the case, but I am afraid that such will be the result of the dabate. I find it unfortunate that the opposition members ... to try to be as brief as possible, I should like them to understand. First, I do not blame the hon. member for Joliette (Mr. La Salle), but I did not appreciate the way he accused the hon. members from Quebec. I do not like what the hon. member for Shefford has just done but I appreciate the spirit in which the mover put this motion forward, because I think he did it with good will. I want to prevent new accusations from one side and the other. When there is an election like the one which has just been held and when it is said that Quebec liberals do not know the problems of agriculture in Quebec, you, Social Credit and Progressive Conservatives, are told that the farmers decided to trust us. So, it is useless to hurl accusations to one another and to be hurt after such a long debate. Personally, I do not mind this very much, because I know who people trust and I think that the Minister of Agriculture knows it too. Because when leaders of APU, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and Cooperative federee come to Ottawa, we see them long before they go to the Social Crediters or the Progressive Conservatives, or even to the hon. member for Joliette (Mr. La Salle) to whom I am very grateful. So let us forget all that and be practical. Very often we do not rise because we have very easy ways to promote our views. No mention was ever made of the discreet but very significant work done by the hon. member for Saint-Jean (Mr. Smith). He fights to

April 16, 1975

maintain the rights ... and if the hon. member for Shef-ford (Mr. Rondeau) came more often to the agriculture committee sessions, where I never see him, he would realize why perhaps all parties in this House agree that he is one of the best. In that committee, work gets done without fights.

I would now say a few things while the minister is there. The opposition will think I speak for the first time. What I shall say every Liberal member has said, because we know when to ask for measures. But I shall make to the Minister of Agriculture a suggestion we all put up together. On that, I ask the member for Joliette to convince the members in his party, in order to avoid repetition of this present hardship to the Quebec farmers and also to the Quebec consumers. I recommended three years ago to the agriculture committee that the Canadian Feed Board be given more powers, as mentioned by the hon. member for Portneuf (Mr. Bussieres) and the member for Gatineau (Mr. Clermont). The first ones to object were the Progressive Conservatives. Let us not forget it was the western ones. At one time I would have liked the member for Joliette (Mr. La Salle) to rise . ..

Mr. Boulanger:

He resigned at that time.

Mr. Cote:

No, that's true, he was in the opposition.

Mr. La Salle:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. member for Joliette (Mr. La Salle), on a point of order.

Mr. La Salle:

I shall be very brief, Mr. Speaker, and mostly very practical. The hon. member for Richelieu (Mr. Cote) is inviting me to rise on this question; I would like to remind him that they have been in power for about 30 years and that they should stop creating opposition about things that they have not themselves realized. You have the power, you should solve these problems!

Mr. Cote:

Thank you for this reminder-

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order, please.

Mr. Fortin:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. member for Lotbiniere on a point of order.

Mr. Fortin:

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Richelieu says that as a government member, he has many more effective means of action than the opposition and he also says that three years ago, he recommended more power for the Canadian Livestock Feed Board. I would like him to explain to me what use government members are if he was not able to convince his own solid government to implement this idea three years ago.

Mr. Cote:

First of all, I shall reply to the question of the hon. member for Joliette who did not let me finish. I was not accusing him of not having risen. He could not rise to make representations on behalf of his party because he did not belong to it at the time-

Mr. Boulanger:

He had resigned.

Feed Grain

Mr. Cote:

If he had let me finish, I would have told him that I was not accusing him. I was saying what I would have wanted at the time. Now I think that he may have the chance soon to convince his colleagues to support us so that we may be unanimous in the agriculture committee. In reply to the hon. member for Lotbiniere (Mr. Fortin) I would say that if we were not so efficient, they would have increased their representation in the last elections. It is in the province of Quebec that farmers told us that we were capable, us Liberals, that we had the best solutions. The people said so, not us.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the possibility of agriculture in eastern Canada relying on at least 10 million bushels of wheat from the Wheat Board which has them available for international trade and supplies for internal consumption in eastern Canada. But the Canadian Wheat Board sees to it that there are available supplies and means of transport for shipping it in eastern Canada and in the four corners of the country.

So, in support of what my hon. colleague from Gatineau (Mr. Clermont) and the other one from Portneuf (Mr. Bussieres) are saying, this problem has been existing for three years now. Two years ago the grain handlers began to strike in the fall. Last year we were concerned with petroleum. This year we are not having quite the same problem, but we fear a shortage. Farmers have that feeling even if there is still grain in eastern Canada. Such fears, such apprehensions encourage speculation from dealers.

If there were any available ... I do not know who would be paying the bill. I am not sure about that. Would it be the farmers' organizations, either the APU or the provincial government. What matters is that this grain would be in eastern Canada and would be shipped before the closing of the St. Lawrence Seaway. Thus it would cost us less to ship this grain by boat than by rail. So we would be sure that if there is speculation during a strike it would not be to the detriment of farmers.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say for those who perhaps are not listening to us but who will be reading about it in the newspapers that at the present time there are injunctions-