April 11, 1974

LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

On the same point of order, Mr. Chairman, I think the House might be willing to accommodate the hon. member for a few minutes because, unless I mistake the mood of the House, there is a general feeling that we might dispose of this matter tonight.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chairman:

Does the committee agree that we not see the clock and that we revert to clause 9?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
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?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

On clause 9.

April 11, 1974

Loans Acts Amendments

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
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NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

Mr. Chairman, I have no objection to sitting for a little while but I do not want to impose on other hon. members. I have two or three questions to address to the minister. I hope, if I sit down while waiting for the minister to reply, that the committee will not disband.

I was making a point with regard to refinancing. The minister said that the bill, as drafted, and the act as operated, were designed to finance new vessel construction through direct lending, and vessel improvement. This raises questions which have arisen in connection with the Fisheries Development Act. That act, as the minister is aware, provides under certain circumstances grants in aid for accomplishing the same purposes as are provided for under this legislation.

The Minister of Fisheries, when discussing the Fisheries Development Act and when dealing with estimates in committee, where this subject matter has also come up, has repeated a number of times that the Fisheries Development Act, so far as it applies to fishing vessels, is designed not to assist fishermen but to assist the shipbuilding industry. He has advanced the argument that if it were not for the grants in aid which apply to small fishing vessels under the program he operates, fishermen on the Atlantic coast would go outside Canada to have their vessels constructed.

I would like to ask the minister whether the operation of this act is designed to assist the fishermen or to assist the boat building and repair industry.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

The fishermen.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
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NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

I am anxious to get the distinction between the two programs. If the minister looks at the report on the money spent under the Fisheries Development Act he will see that the bulk is spent on the Atlantic coast, even though one member from Nova Scotia pointed out this afternoon in committee that the weight of the spending appears to be on the Pacific coast. Under this program are fishermen free if they wish to have their boats built or improved in a non-Canadian yard?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

I hesitate to comment on that at this stage, Mr. Chairman, because really it is not within the purview of this particular piece of legislation. The purpose of this legislation is to help the fishermen. I can undertake to discuss this with my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries, and give the hon. member a fully reply, but I am not able to do that tonight.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

I will not press the minister for a detailed answer to this question tonight. I realize there may be some responsibilities in this area that are under the Department of National Revenue. However, I would appreciate if the minister or one of his colleagues would undertake to provide me with an outline of how this operates.

I have another question. Is there a rule against the importation of fishing vessels into Canada? I am trying to get a picture of just how this operates in relation to the two programs. What substance is there in the suggestion that, if we did not have a subsidy program, the fishermen would go abroad to get their fishing vessels, whereas with

[The Assistant Deputy Chairman.]

an assured lending program, with a rate of lending somewhat below what might otherwise be available, this is purely a program for the fishermen?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

I will give the hon. member that undertaking.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

I have one other question I wish to address to the minister.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
PC

Thomas Miller Bell (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell:

Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of order. We are quite willing to be reasonable, to show some progress and try to get some things done around here. However, we do not want to go so long that we lose our two men who have been waiting for the late show. That should be understood.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

Mr. Chairman, one matter that is often raised, not only with regard to this but other programs also, is the unwillingness at times of lenders to approve loans because they can lend money more profitably elsewhere than under the assured lending program because it is restricted as to the interest level. I have had something on that reported to me, and I say this with some regret because I am one of the advocates of having credit unions included in the insured lenders under this program.

I understand that credit unions representing a large number of fishermen have not deemed it advisable to do much lending under this program. In these circumstances I should like to ask the minister whether any consideration is being given to introducing some form of direct lending in cases where official lenders are not ready to make sufficient funds available?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

I will draw that suggestion to the attention of my colleague, but any such direct lending program would be a matter for the Minister of Fisheries to consider.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

Will fishermen be considered eligible for this kind of loan under the proposals for reforming the Industrial Development Bank?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

I would think so.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink

Clause agreed to. Clause 10 agreed to. Title agreed to. Bill reported.


NONE

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

No affiliation

Mr. Speaker:

When shall the bill be read the third time?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

By leave, now.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
PC

Thomas Miller Bell (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell:

No.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

April 11, 1974