April 11, 1974

LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

Mr. Chairman, the purpose of the legislation, of course, is to facilitate and encourage by direct financing and private lending, term loans for fisheries improvement. That is the way the guarantee functions under the bill. Refinancing of existing debts or working capital are not eligible under this bill, or the farm improvement loans bill or small business loans bill. I will look at it and get in touch with the hon. member privately, but certainly it is not covered under this program.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
PC

Fred Alward McCain

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCain:

I would like to ask the minister if he has any influence with the banks so that working capital loans could be considered as separate and apart, and would not be influenced by an improvement loan under this act?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

Mr. Chairman, this bill does not provide any accommodation for working capital.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
PC

Fred Alward McCain

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCain:

If the bank, having made the improvement loan, reconsiders the working capital loan which it may have made to the operator and is inclined to downgrade the amount it is prepared to lend to a businessman or fisherman for operating purposes after having made the improvement loan, is this still the case?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

No, Mr. Chairman, that is a separate loan. There is no way we could exercise leverage over the bank in that case.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
PC

Fred Alward McCain

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCain:

Do the best you can.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

John Napier Turner (Minister of Finance)

Liberal

Mr. Turner (Ottawa-Carleton):

You bring the incident to my attention and I will.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

The hon. member for Carleton-Charlotte raised the question on which I thought the minister was confusing working capital and capital for construction of boats. I am not suggesting that we enter into a situation where it should include working capital. I agree with the minister on that point, but a few moments ago the minister said that this parallels the Small Businesses Loans Act and Farm Improvement Loans Act. If I recall correctly, the Farm Improvement Loans Act was the first of the three to be enacted. Perhaps the people in the department naturally may have felt it desirable and simpler to create a parallel piece of legislation as it applied to fishermen.

Loans Acts Amendments

I may be wrong, but I do not know of any situation in the farm industry which parallels the situation I have tried to outline in the fishing industry. I have heard farmers say they are owned by the bank, but I have not heard farmers suggest that they are owned, for example, by Canada Packers. As far as I know, Canada Packers is in business on the prairies. That firm, so far as I know, has never been in the habit of financing the capital requirements of beef growers. I may be wrong. In British Columbia there is an organization parochially known as B.C. Packers. I mention these two firms, not to single them out, but to point out that there has been in existence a different basic practice in the industry. To say arbitrarily that the Farm Improvement Loans Act-

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chairman:

Order, please. I must inform the committee that we must work in accordance with the rules. Either I should see the clock at ten o'clock, or not see it. Does the House consent to continue?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chairman:

Shall clause 9 carry?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chairman:

Shall the bill carry?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
LIB

Gérald Laniel (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Chairman:

Shall I rise and report progress?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I thought I heard you call it ten o'clock.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

No.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

Am I to assume that you were going to rise and report progress?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

Yes.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink
NDP

Thomas Speakman Barnett

New Democratic Party

Mr. Barnett:

Mr. Chairman, if that assumption is correct let me say that I have some further questions I wish to address to the minister on the subject of the Fisheries Improvement Loans Act, and I would be quite prepared to do so if the House were to continue sitting in committee.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM IMPROVEMENT, SMALL BUSINESSES AND FISHERIES IMPROVEMENT LOANS ACTS AMENDMENTS RESPECTING LOANS AND GOVERNMENT LIABILITY
Permalink

April 11, 1974