September 17, 1973

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

IMMIGRATION

LIB

Robert Knight Andras (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Hon. Robert K. Andras (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):

Mr. Speaker, during the consideration of the amendments to the Immigration Appeal Board Act I informed the House that the government was continuing its review of the whole field of immigration policy with an eye to Canada's long-term needs. I wish now to inform the House of the steps the government is taking to intensify work on these questions and of the schedule it has set for its completion.

The task, as I think we all recognized during recent debates, is enormous and urgent, and the government intends to proceed without delay. The first step must be to identify all the options, and for this purpose I have appointed a small group of people to deal with this task. We will need a great deal of help. I am writing today to provincial governments and to over 100 organizations enclosing a statement of the problems under study and inviting them to tell us about their particular concerns and to give us their advice. With your leave, Mr. Speaker, I am tabling copies of this statement in both official languages, pursuant to Standing Order 41(2), in each official language.

The target for the completion of this first stage, which will also involve a series of special studies, is next spring. The results will be published in the form of a document, a "green paper", which I am confident will provoke further national discussion. I want to emphasize that we will be seeking the widest possible spectrum of public opinion on the green paper. In addition to seeking the views of the provinces, the territorial governments, members of parliament and briefs from interested groups, I am proposing that a national conference on immigration and population be convened, sponsored by my department.

The green paper will, I hope, provide a good focus for debate. It will do three things particularly. First, it will identify the problems and analyse policy options in terms which will relate immigration to the kind of Canada that we might want. Second, it will review the techniques and procedures by which immigrants are recruited. Third, it will review the whole legal framework within which new policies should operate.

The end result at which we are aiming is a comprehensive policy, to be expressed in new immigration legislation for submission to parliament. Our goal is an up to date instrument to shape Canada's future immigration policy which will crucially affect and determine Canada's economic, social, cultural and demographic growth.

With leave, I should like to table the further statement in both official languages.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
PC

Lincoln MacCauley Alexander

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lincoln M. Alexander (Hamilton West):

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my party I certainly welcome the minister's statement. I should like to re-emphasize the intent of his last sentence, which we share and accept. He said:

Our goal is an up to date instrument to shape Canada's future immigration policy which will crucially affect and determine Canada's economic, social, cultural and demographic growth.

I would only add one rider. We on this side of the House, and I am sure all hon. members, suggest that the goal should be an up to date instrument based not on race, creed, colour, sex or national origin but on the ability of the person who comes willingly to Canada in freedom in order that he may ultimately share in the great destiny of this country.

I am pleased to note that the government now realizes that immigration policy cannot be implemented by regulations but should be instituted by legislation. In order to get away from regulations in terms of the Immigration Appeal Board we have found that it was necessary to bring in legislation. Legislation has had to be introduced to deal with certain decisions made by the Immigration Appeal Board that have embarrassed the government.

I should also like to say we should never forget, though some may find fault with this view, that this country was built by thousands of unskilled and uneducated people who came to this country believing in the work ethnic. Many Canadians have forgotten this. Many Canadians have cast aside an appreciation of the work ethic. When we think of the new policy that must be introduced through legislation I hope we will not forget that if this country has reached any greatness it is as a result of the efforts of those who did not have as much education or possess the skills of people today but were sincere in the belief that they were coming to a land of opportunity where they have made their mark. There are many such success stories.

Let me further emphasize the need for consultation with the provinces. I am glad to see there is to be provincial consultation because it seems to me the federal government has abdicated its responsibility in regard to the social services needed by many immigrants. There is a very great need by many immigrants for language training in order to increase their ability to become integrated into

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September 17, 1973

Immigration

our society. There is a need for them to be advised about the many different government services that can be placed at their disposal. There is a need for accommodation and jobs. In this regard there must be more co-operation and consultation with the provinces.

We await the national conference on immigration because we all wish to contribute in respect of input. We await the green paper. I commend the minister and the government for the steps they are taking. They may rest assured that they will have the wholehearted support of members of the Progressive Conservative party.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
NDP

David Orlikow

New Democratic Party

Mr. David Orlikow (Winnipeg North):

Mr. Speaker, the question of immigration has been of importance to this country ever since white people first began to come to what is now Canada. There are many important aspects of the question. How many people should be encouraged to come to Canada? There have been great differences of opinion in this regard. There is the question of from which countries we should encourage people to come. Opinion has changed in this regard over the years. At one time immigrants were almost exclusively from Great Britain and northern Europe. This situation existed for many years but has now changed drastically. We now have immigrants from Asia, Africa, the West Indies and southern and eastern Europe.

These are all matters of great concern. We welcome the idea of a national conference at which the provinces and the various community groups, ethnic, religious and racial that have a particular interest, will be represented and will be able to make their views known so that hopefully the government may arrive at policies based on a consensus of the people who participate in that conference.

I reiterate what we have said on so many occasions in the past. The rate at which we admit immigrants into this country is in the final analysis decided by the federal government. As a result of the provisions of the BNA Act to a large extent, many immigrants who come to this country who are not fluent in either English or French, the official languages of the country, become to a large extent the responsibility of the provinces and municipalities in respect of the provision of education and the knowledge of Canada they require if they are to become active participants in this country. I say to the minister, as we have said in the past, that we believe the federal government must take a much larger responsibility in fact as well as in law to help the provinces, the municipalities and local communities develop the ability of new Canadians particularly those who are not knowledgeable in either English or French, so they may play a full part as Canadian citizens after they arrive in Canada.

[ Translation]

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
SC

René Matte

Social Credit

Mr. Rene Matte (Champlain):

Mr. Speaker, we must state positively that this time, we are fully in agreement with the minister's statement.

We notably welcome the fact that, firstly, it deals with the establishment of a long term policy, and this is the reason for our concurrence. We also welcome the fact that, secondly, the government and the minister thought of providing for consultations and negotiations so as to come to an understanding with the provinces.

We dare hope that the widest possible spectrum of public opinion which is being sought, as mentioned also on page 2 of the statement, will help reach the goals which the minister has set and which I think are those of Parliament as a whole.

[ English]

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
PC

Gerald William Baldwin (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baldwin:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order by way of a caveat. I have not had a chance yet to see the document the minister sought to table under Standing Order 41(2). It may be quite valid and he may be entitled to do so. I simply want to say there is a difference between making a statement on motions under Standing Order 15(3) and tabling a document under Standing Order 41(2). It may well be that a minister may make a statement which may be a condensation of what he tables. That is perfectly all right and takes less of the time of the House. But if what the minister tables is in effect a propaganda document or press release to which he refers in his statement, then we would take very strong exception to it. I have not had a chance to see the document, but I thought I should file that caveat now so this procedure would not be completed without our having had an opportunity to say we object at this time.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
LIB

Robert Knight Andras (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Andras:

Mr. Speaker, that is acceptable. I sent copies to the opposition critics earlier today.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
NONE

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

No affiliation

Mr. Speaker:

As hon. members know, this point of order was raised last week. As raised in the previous instance the point had perhaps more validity, as I understood it, than today. I am in full agreement with hon. members who raise this point that there are two standing orders, one providing for the tabling of documents and the other for the making of statements. There is a third possibility open to ministers, that is, to make a statement outside the House. I have felt and ruled in the past that perhaps it was not consistent with the spirit of the rule to table in the House under Standing Order 41(2) a statement that a minister may want to make outside the House, in other words, to table under the Standing Order a statement to be made outside the House.

The overriding difficulty in so far as the Chair is concerned is that if hon. members object on a regular basis to the tabling of documents under Standing Order 41(2), the Chair would be placed in the position of having to exercise some measure of censorship and having to examine all documents that are going to be tabled and decide whether such documents are of a nature that they can or should be tabled under Standing Order 41(2). I remind hon. members that when this Standing Order was enacted by the House a few years ago it was for the very purpose of making it easier for the House to receive documents or papers from members of the cabinet, and I assume it is for that purpose that these documents are being tabled under the Standing Order. I would hope there would be general agreement among members of the House as to what type of documents are envisioned under the terms of Standing Order 41(2).

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
PC

Robert Lorne Stanfield (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stanfield:

There is just one point, Mr. Speaker. I am sure the minister did not mean to mislead the House in any way but, as I understood him, he said that he had sent

September 17, 1973

copies of the statement he tabled to the opposition parties. What the minister sent was sent to my office, which is the usual practice, but he simply sent the statement he has read to the House. I call that to his attention. He did not send me a copy of what he has tabled, although obviously he is sincerely under the impression that he did so.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink
LIB

Robert Knight Andras (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Andras:

The Leader of the Opposition is quite right. If he did not get a copy of the statement I tabled, that was an error or misunderstanding on my part. I thought I sent both the statement I read and the statement I tabled.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   IMMIGRATION
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NATURE OF REVIEW, PUBLICATION OF GREEN PAPER, AND NATIONAL CONFERENCE-TABLING OF STATEMENT
Permalink

STATEMENT ON GATT MEETING IN TOKYO-TABLING OF DECLARATION OF MINISTERS

LIB

Alastair William Gillespie (Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Hon. Alastair Gillespie (Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a brief statement on the Tokyo Declaration to which Canada is a signatory. The Tokyo Declaration officially opens the seventh round of multilateral trade negotiations conducted under GATT. These negotiations will be of unprecedented scope covering both tariffs and non-tariff measures which restrict or distort trade in industrial and agricultural products. The negotiations will include the first systematic and comprehensive attempt to reduce or eliminate non-tariff measures and bring such measures under more effective international discipline.

As a result of Canadian efforts the negotiations will also include, for the first time, a systematic examination of the possibilities of reducing or eliminating all barriers to trade in selected commodity sectors. These negotiations hold out the promise of potential benefits larger than those achieved in any previous negotiation. For these reasons the Tokyo Declaration is a very important document, and the fact that representatives of 102 countries assembled to consider and approve it provides ground for believing that this venture will succeed.

Pursuant to Standing Order 41(2) I should like to lay on the table of the House, in both official languages, the Declaration of Ministers approved by 102 countries at the GATT meeting in Tokyo last week.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON GATT MEETING IN TOKYO-TABLING OF DECLARATION OF MINISTERS
Permalink
PC

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Paul Hellyer (Trinity):

Mr. Speaker, first of all I should like to welcome the minister back from the GATT meeting in Tokyo where he participated at the kick-off of the new round of negotiations. I am sure he is as aware as anyone that the goal posts are still far removed and that a good deal of tough bargaining is going to be necessary if we are to achieve a satisfactory result by 1975.

With the philosophy of further liberalization of world trade this party is profoundly in accord. Certainly no country is more dependent on world trade than Canada. No country exports as large a proportion of its national output as Canada. Therefore no country is as vulnerable to the results of world trade negotiations as Canada.

This is particularly significant at the moment when the world seems to be dividing itself into trading blocs, when Canada, if we are not careful, could be excluded from ready access to the great international markets of the

Trade

world and when, if we are to be successful and develop fully the talents we have in this country and the high technology industries, we will have to ensure that we have access to the great, powerful, industrialized markets in other countries, including, of course, the European bloc, the United States and Japan.

Probably the Japanese challenge is the greatest of all, Mr. Speaker, and it is reassuring to know that non-tariff barriers are to be attacked as well as the tariffs themselves. It is rather discouraging to look at the results for last year and to realize that less than 3 per cent of Canada's exports to Japan last year were in fully finished products. I hope the minister used the opportunity that was available to him in Tokyo to impress upon the Japanese the necessity not only of balancing our trade fully but also of guaranteeing that within a reasonable period of time, perhaps three or four years, fully half of Canada's exports to that country will be in the form of fully finished products. The minister is going to have to develop considerable backbone if he is going to achieve this and he is going to have to talk tough to the Japanese. I would encourage him in this regard. Certainly this is one of the greatest potential markets in the world for Canadian products, and any failure on his part will not be well received by the Canadian people. If I may make one suggestion, Mr. Speaker, it would be that the minister consider building a permanent facility in Tokyo which could be used by Canadian manufacturers to show the products we have in this country and which would enable Canadians to expand substantially their exports of manufactured products to Japan.

It is equally important that we tackle vigorously the non-tariff barriers to our agricultural products in the European community. Here our interests seem to lie very much along the same lines as those of our American neighbours. The minister and his officials should work very closely with the Americans in putting all possible pressure on the European community to lower the barriers that now exist in order to give reasonable access to Canadian farmers for their products.

One further point which I think deserves emphasis is that in working out the new agreement there would be a determination to pay special attention to the needs and aspirations of the developing countries. They should be given a chance to participate more fully in world trade and earn for themselves the foreign exchange necessary to buy capital equipment and other products they require to develop their own economies.

This is welcome news, Mr. Speaker, but I think the final point that must be made is that no amount of success in these trade negotiations will achieve the results required unless at the same time we can achieve a tremendous improvement in international monetary arrangements. I would hope that the minister would press his colleague, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Turner), to go to the International Monetary Fund with some fresh thinking. Information already available would indicate that perhaps we might fall into the trap of repeating the mistakes that were made at Breton Woods in 1944. It does not matter what the tariff arrangements are or what the conclusions are in respect of non-tariff barriers if we have an interna-

26454-54 J

September 17, 1973

Trade

tional monetary system that produces crises every year or two.

I would say that of all the problems facing the trading world at the present time one of the most important, and probably the most important, is the resolution of international monetary arrangements and the necessity for the injection of some new thinking in this area.

We wish the minister and his officials well and hope they will be able to solve not only our trading problems but that through pressure on the financial group the orthodoxies of the past will be discarded and we will get an international arrangement which will be efficacious and allow Canadians to develop along the lines we all wish to see.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON GATT MEETING IN TOKYO-TABLING OF DECLARATION OF MINISTERS
Permalink
NDP

John Edward Broadbent (N.D.P. Caucus Chair)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Edward Broadbent (Oshawa-Whitby):

Mr. Speaker, in welcoming the statement the minister tabled today I would like to add that we in this party look forward to the particular trade policies of the government in the areas that are listed as part of the general concern in the statement. We have not had any general indication from the minister or the government of their over-all trade policy. We hope it will be established in these negotiations in the days ahead in a way that will benefit not only Canada but other trading countries.

I should like to make three specific points. First, we should like to see the negotiations that have just begun lead to a general liberalization of agricultural trade. In particular, we would like to see ready access to the markets of western Europe for Canadian farmers. We know very well that for years that part of the world has had a highly protective system for agriculture which has barred the full, liberal entry of Canadian agricultural produce. We hope the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce is pushing for significant changes in that direction and for changes that will include orderly world marketing procedures so that the Canadian farmer will not be left in the kind of vacillating position in which he has found himself in recent years.

The second point I wish to make and I do so briefly, has already been referred to by the spokesman for the Conservative party. It is very important to see that non-tariff trading barriers are discussed as well as tariffs. This is particularly important in terms of Canadian access to the Japanese market which has become one of the most important in the world. If I may take one particular commodity I know something about, it happens to be the case that North Americans produce small automobiles at world competitive prices, including Japanese prices, but they are effectively excluded by non-tariff barriers from the Japanese market. It is this kind of situation that has to be changed if Canadian producers of secondary goods, not only automobiles but the whole range of secondary goods, are to gain access to that very important world market. I hope the minister is pushing the case for the removal of non-tariff barriers very strenuously.

The final point I wish to make on behalf of our party is that we welcome the newly expressed concern about the particular problems of developing nations. For too long the industrial world, including Canada, has developed a series

of trade policies which have frequently been in the guise of aid or development for the underdeveloped world but which, in terms of any serious cost-benefit analysis have always turned out to be to the advantage of the developed world. I for one welcome the putting on the agenda of recognition of the special problems of the poorer countries in the world and the indication that the richer nations are going to establish trading principles which, for once, might not work to the disadvantage of the poorer countries.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON GATT MEETING IN TOKYO-TABLING OF DECLARATION OF MINISTERS
Permalink
SC

David Réal Caouette

Social Credit

Mr. Real Caouette (Temiscamingue):

Mr. Speaker, we were glad to hear the Minister of Industry, Trade and Commerce (Mr. Gillespie) speak about the international trade agreement endorsed by 102 countries.

We hope that Canada has acted in such a way as to improve its situation in the fields of import and export and that we will have, among these 102 nations, not a top place, but at least a place equal to the others. What I mean is that we should not be satisfied to deal with other countries by selling or giving away most of our raw materials, by not finishing our products at home, while other countries use our raw materials to finish their products and selling them to us afterwards.

I think that after these discussions, after these agreements, the government should be able to make decisions about processing at home our raw materials as completely as possible and create secondary industries; there is a terrible lack of these in various regions of the country. And by creating needed additional secondary industries, Mr. Speaker, we would not merely be raw materials sellers, but we could deal with any country on an equal basis concerning products made in Canada, and not in Japan or in the United States. This is my wish.

We congratulate the minister for reaching these agreements with the 101 countries gathered in Tokyo, but we would like that, after this very important meeting, Canada carries out decisions in favour of all Canadians.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON GATT MEETING IN TOKYO-TABLING OF DECLARATION OF MINISTERS
Permalink

TABLING OF COMMUNIQUE ON QUEBEC-CANADA MEETING

LIB

Donald Stovel Macdonald (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources)

Liberal

Hon. Donald S. Macdonald (Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources):

Mr. Speaker, under Standing Order 41(2), I wish to table the joint press release on the Quebec-Canada meeting on energy.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   TABLING OF COMMUNIQUE ON QUEBEC-CANADA MEETING
Permalink
PC

Gerald William Baldwin (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baldwin:

Mr. Speaker, if it is a press release, I object. It is not even a good press release.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   TABLING OF COMMUNIQUE ON QUEBEC-CANADA MEETING
Permalink
NONE

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

No affiliation

Mr. Speaker:

Hon. members will appreciate once more the procedural difficulty in which we are placing ourselves. The rule is clear. I have referred to the rule on a number of occasions. I am sure that everyone in the House knows what Standing Order 41(2) provides and is aware of the terms of Standing Order 15.1 said earlier today, last week and on a number of previous occasions that the purpose of Standing Order 15 is to allow a minister, a

September 17, 1973

member of the government, to make a statement on motions, to which representatives of the parties in opposition can respond. The purpose of Standing Order 41(2) is to table a document or paper relating to the administrative responsibilities of the government or of a particular department. The third alternative is for ministers to make statements outside the House, which our Standing Orders do not preclude and which has been the practice on many occasions in past decades and more.

What is being suggested now is that when a document is sought to be tabled by a minister the Speaker should suspend the work of the House and look at a document which may be five or ten pages long and determine whether it is the kind of document that could be tabled under the terms of Standing Order 41(2). The previous document tabled by the Minister of Manpower and Immigration was even longer than this one. I am sure it is not the wish of the House that we suspend the sitting every two minutes for half an hour so the Speaker can study a document to determine whether it is a document that is acceptable under Standing Order 41(2). I would really think that the responsibility should be that of the minister who tables the document-

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   TABLING OF COMMUNIQUE ON QUEBEC-CANADA MEETING
Permalink

September 17, 1973