January 30, 1973

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

AIRPORTS

LIB

Jean-Eudes Dubé (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Hon. Jean-Eudes Dube (Minister of Public Works):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a statement regarding expropriation proceedings to acquire a site for a new Toronto airport at Pickering, Ontario. Hon. members will recall that public hearings of objections were held during December in Toronto, as provided for in the Expropriation Act, and the hearing officer's report was tabled in the House on January 18. The government has given careful and detailed consideration to the objections documented in the report, and in particular the Minister of Transport (Mr. Marchand) has reviewed the technical aspects. These issues, as well as the vitally important social implications, have been extensively reviewed by cabinet.

My colleague the Minister of Transport is today tabling two documents most pertinent to this issue: first, a technical response to the objections made at the public hearing, which was prepared by the Ministry of Transport; second, a statement by the Minister of Transport regarding the need for a new Toronto airport. This in turn clearly establishes the need for the land being expropriated.

The government is convinced of the need for a new Toronto airport and I am of the opinion the Pickering site is required for this purpose. Accordingly, I have signed the notices of confirmation of expropriation and requested the Attorney General of Canada to take the necessary steps immediately to effect registration of the notices in the local land registry and title offices.

These Notices include the majority of lands described in the notices of intention. However, certain portions of the lands described in the notices of intention are not being confirmed. The lands that are not therefore being expropriated are generally located on the original boundary and I am advised by the Minister of Transport it is not essential they be acquired for the airport. This advice is based upon investigations completed since the first announcement in March 1972. I might add that the owners of these lands will be offered the option of selling their land to the government.

In accordance with the procedures laid down in the Expropriation Act, written offers of compensation, accompanied by an appraisal report, will be made to every owner of an interest in the lands to which the

notices of confirmation apply. The more than 2,000 offers required will be made within the statutory ninety day period following the date of confirmation.

In addition to the market value of the property, which is to be calculated as of the date the notice of confirmation is registered and not the earlier notice of intention, an owner in occupation will also be paid for any costs or losses incidental to disturbance including moving to other premises. There is provision for compensating tenants and holders of security or mortgage interests, plus rules for other items and types of compensation. Of particular note is the right of an expropriated homeowner to claim additional compensation for the cost of relocating his residence in reasonably equivalent premises, if the compensation otherwise payable is not sufficient to permit this.

Many hon. members will also recall the strong support in the House of the provision in the new act whereby an owner may accept the government's offer of compensation and receive payment immediately, without prejudicing his right to claim additional compensation. An owner then has up to one year to negotiate settlement of such claims or to proceed in the Federal Court.

I should also point out that no resident will be required to move immediately. Obviously, the public examination of airport facilities announced last year and since reaffirmed, will help determine the timing and development of this airport.

In any event, it takes several years to develop an airport and thus many residents will not be required to move for a considerable period of time.

Clearly, it will be in the public interest to facilitate the continued residence of owners who wish to remain and this has also been the attitude of the Ontario government who are acquiring land in the adjoining area. Accordingly, such owners will be required to pay only the taxes and the usual costs of operation including maintenance and insurance, through to December 31, 1974.

In conclusion then, the decision to proceed has been made and I can assure the House that each owner will be dealt with compassionately and to the full extent of the new Expropriation Act.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NONE

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

No affiliation

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member for St. Paul's.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NDP

David Lewis

New Democratic Party

Mr. Lewis:

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NONE

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

No affiliation

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member rises on a point of order.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NDP

David Lewis

New Democratic Party

Mr. Lewis:

Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the hon. member for St. Paul's (Mr. Atkey). I received in my office a copy of the statement by the Minister of Transport and, as you

January 30, 1973

Pickering Airport Site

will recall, Sir, the Minister of Public Works said that the Minister of Transport would table two documents, one being the statement. I wonder whether the hon. member for St. Paul's and Your Honour might not agree that the Minister of Transport be given an opportunity now to table these two documents, because my comments will be in respect of both the statement by the Minister of Public Works and the document to be filed by the Minister of Transport.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NONE

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

No affiliation

Mr. Speaker:

Is this agreed?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
LIB

Jean Marchand (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. lean Marchand (Minister of Transport):

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 41(2), I am tabling the response of the Department of Transport to the synopsis report of the hearing officer with regard to the new Toronto airport, as well as my own statement on the choice of the site.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
PC

Ronald George Atkey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Ron Atkey (St. Paul's):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank both the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Dube) and the Minister of Transport (Mr. Marchand) for providing copies of their statements in advance of the presentation and tabling of the respective statements in the House.

It is distressing that the government finds it necessary to confirm expropriations of some 18,000 acres of land involving over 2,000 property owners when the question of need for a second airport has not yet been determined.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
PC

Ronald George Atkey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Atkey:

This is clearly locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen. Even if a second airport is needed, which many people seriously doubt, the decision today destroys any flexibility left in siting an airport which may not be put into use for a decade. Surely this is one of the worst examples of backward planning this country has ever seen.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
PC

Ronald George Atkey

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Atkey:

The government says it is convinced of the need for a new Toronto airport. While it may have reports from its technical consultants, and even these have been conflicting from time to time, who has it consulted in the Toronto-centred region? At least 14 of the 22 successful metro Toronto candidates in the October 30 election went on record during the campaign as saying there was no proven need for a second airport. The Toronto city council executive committee, representing over 700,000 people, last Wednesday requested the abandonment of the expropriations prior to a public determination of need. The regional municipality of York, representing 166,000 people, and the township of Pickering, representing over 30,000 people, have made similar requests, as has the mayor of Scarborough. Most of the formal objectors at the expropriation hearings in November and December gave primary emphasis to the unanswered question of need.

Yet the government pushes blindly on with virtually no public consultation and confirms the Pickering expropriations.

The lengthy statement of the Minister of Transport or, at least, the first nine pages of that statement, can be boiled down to this. He is saying to the people of the Toronto-centred region: You need a second airport; we have decided. Yet in the last four pages it appears to have suddenly dawned upon the minister that he should be concerned about public participation. He is at long last prepared to honour the commitment of his predecessor and arrange for an independent group to hear representations from the public as well as from the provincial and municipal governments. This independent group is to determine the type and timing of the facilities required, and the people will be able to make inputs not only on the question of the airport but also as to the kind of urban region they want, and how this would affect air service and airports.

We welcome this opportunity for public participation. It is long overdue. But we find it impossible to believe that this government can in any way maintain an open mind on the question when it appears to have already made its decision. The expropriations which have been confirmed today are for an airport. They cannot be for any other purpose if they are to remain legally valid. The government knows this. How can the public participation proposed in these circumstances be anything but a charade? At best, this is political waffling to avoid the political impact of a decision already taken. The Minister of Transport says in his statement that this process will be the first of its kind and could be a model for the future. Expropriate now-determine need later. Heaven help us!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NDP

David Lewis

New Democratic Party

Mr. David Lewis (York South):

Mr. Speaker, I wanted the Minister of Transport to have the opportunity to table his statement before we commented on the situation because his statement is a great deal more important, if I may say so, than the statement made by the Minister of Public Works. As to that statement, I can only say the minister is following the procedures under the new Expropriation Act. I would simply ask him, very seriously and very strongly, to consider making available to the proprietors of the property in that area the opportunity and the financial assistance necessary for them to obtain their own appraisers instead of having to depend merely upon the appraisers that the department will appoint. This invariably places the person who owns the home or land at a considerable disadvantage.

As to the decision itself, I cannot but agree with the very eloquent, very succinct and very excellent statement made by the hon. member for St. Paul's.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
NDP

David Lewis

New Democratic Party

Mr. Lewis:

Perhaps, as he is a new member, he will not think me paternalistic for using those adjectives. I am really disturbed by the politics in the statement of the Minister of Transport. I am disturbed for a very fundamental reason. The Minister of Transport says very distinctly, as does the Minister of Public Works in his statement, that the government has decided (a) that a second

January 30, 1973

Toronto airport is needed, and (b) that Pickering shall be the location. Then he talks about public hearings after the expropriations are confirmed and he hints, but does not say, in referring to a public hearing that it is still possible for the government to change its mind. Mr. Speaker, I say earnestly to the minister that this is precisely the kind of cynical approach to participation by the people that degrades the value of government and the value of parliament.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   AIRPORTS
Sub-subtopic:   PICKERING TOWNSHIP SITE-ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO PROCEED WITH EXPROPRIATIONS
Permalink

January 30, 1973