June 23, 1972

LIB

Russell Clayton Honey (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I will put the question, since that is agreed. The hon. member for Vancouver-Kingsway (Mrs. Maclnnis) seconded by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre, moves:

That Bill C-195, an act to amend the Adult Occupational Training Act, be amended in clause 1 by changing the period at the end of line 10 at page 1 to a comma, and by adding immediately thereafter the following words:

"including a person who is engaged in domestic services at home whether or not such person has at any time been a member of the labour force."

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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Motion agreed to.


LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Hon. Bryce Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration) moved

that Bill C-195, to amend the Adult Occupational Training Act, as reported (without amendment) from the Standing Committee on Labour, Manpower and Immigration, be concurred in.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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Motion agreed to.


LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Mackasey moved

that the bill be read the third time and do pass.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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PC

John Howard Lundrigan

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lundrigan:

Mr. Speaker, I suppose it is in order for an hon. member to say a word or two on third reading?

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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LIB

Russell Clayton Honey (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Yes, of course it is in order. The minister pointed out that the hon. member dealt in his remarks with what he might have dealt with on third reading, and I am sure the minister might like to respond. I will, of course, see the hon. member for Gander-Twillingate (Mr. Lundrigan).

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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PC

John Howard Lundrigan

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lundrigan:

Mr. Speaker, I deliberately put all my remarks in the one package because, unlike some hon. members, I do not want my name to appear in Hansard 17 times in one day, even if it means seconding motions or what have you. I understood that the minister was going to make a few remarks on third reading.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Hon. Bryce Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):

Mr. Speaker, my first words on third reading are to thank the House for its courtesy in dealing with the report stage so rapidly. I think this was possible only because of the very exhaustive study we gave the bill in

June 23, 1972

Adult Occupational Training Act committee. We often talk about bills that are of a non-partisan nature, and it is significant that these few minor amendments-I say minor; they are really major, if I may put it in that way-made to the original act passed in 1967, I believe, were both important and necessary.

It became very obvious to me earlier on, that these amendments should be made while looking at the same time at the act in its entirety with a view to amending the original act as fully and as soon as possible. Hence at the committee stage-I say this sincerely since I have a book full of notes in front of me-many points were raised by the representatives of the various parties, including the hon. member for Gander-Twillingate (Mr. Lundrigan) who has obviously specialized in manpower problems and is quite knowledgeable of the subject, perhaps more so than the minister since I have been in my present portfolio only a few months.

What I have tried to do during those few months, either directly or through my officials, including the new deputy minister, is to visit every province of Canada-certainly I have been in touch with every province-with the exception of Newfoundland which I intend to visit personally at the appropriate time of year, which should not be too far ahead in the future. I mean appropriate in terms of the fishing season, not election time. The general result of these visits has been a reawakening of enthusiasm about the broader aspects of the potential of manpower programs and the growing realization, not only at the federal level and within the federal department but at the regional level as well, of the important part that manpower must play, and will have to play in the future, if we are to achieve not only a quality of life that reflects reasonable unemployment figures but a quality of life that is reflected in the contentment and satisfaction of a well educated work force.

The hon. gentleman referred specifically and quite knowledgeably to a particular program, the initials of which he was able to pinpoint. I assure him that I have no intention of introducing tomorrow, next week or before the session ends, on motions or without advance warning, this kind of project in the form of a bill which would make possible this sort of future thrust by the Department of Manpower. In other words, it is not my intention to bring such legislation before the House.

The reason for this, I think, is self-evident. I happen to believe-this is only a personal opinion-that the Canada of tomorrow cannot afford a government that is extremely centralist in nature. I believe very strongly that in any legislation dealing with people, the federal government has a very strong and dominant part to play from the economic point of view. However, the provinces in turn have a particularly important role to play in the introduction of social legislation in this House, even though that legislation clearly lies within the federal field.

For example, just to use a hypothetical case, with any legislation dealing with the disadvantaged people of Canada it seems to me that input from the provinces and the various regions of the country would be of tremendous significance. We are all Canadians and all levels of government are dealing with the same people. However, if the type of co-operation and consultation that I see for the Department of Manpower in the future is to be at all

meaningful, then such discussions certainly cannot be conducted in a secretive manner. Programs of an experimental nature would have to be developed in co-operation and conjunction with the input we receive from various provincial agencies and organizations.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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PC

John Howard Lundrigan

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lundrigan:

Mr. Speaker, might I ask the minister a question? He referred to the Canada Manpower Opportunities Program a little earlier and said that he would not be introducing any such program through the introduction of legislation or a statement on motions before the House closes. I ask the minister whether there is such a program, which he might be ready to unveil now or after the House closes some time this summer, which not necessarily involves opportunities such as training programs or education, if I might use that word which is not supposed to be used in the House of Commons, but mainly a works program? Does the minister have this kind of a program ready to unveil?

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Mackasey:

I will be a little evasive and say I have many programs to unveil and have to make up my mind what is the best program to unveil, if any.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader; Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

You say that is just a little evasive?

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Mackasey:

It is very evasive, and necessarily so because programs depend on many factors. They depend on the approval of the government and the availability of funds. More and more they should, and will, at least in manpower fields, depend on the consent and co-operation of provinces and agencies. I am not prepared to say to what extent we have finalized, or whether to any extent we have finalized any particular program emanating from the Department of Manpower at this moment.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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PC

John Howard Lundrigan

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Lundrigan:

I have one final question. I hate to interrupt the minister, but could he answer the second part of my question which had to do with presentation before the House of Commons of any program which he might, for example, have wished to introduced in May but deferred for obvious reasons and may want to introduce in the next couple of weeks, perhaps before the House closes? Could he give us some kind of undertaking that if such a program is introduced before the House of Commons rises, it will be brought before the House and debated at least to the point where as members of this House of Commons we can express ourselves on the extent of the program and on the criteria for evaluation procedures, and consider whether it is different from the type of program which the government has introduced in the last six or seven months?

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Mackasey:

I would like to be able to give that assurance, but I cannot. I will be honest and say I have no such program in my desk or in my drawer which I intend to introduce before the end of June, next week, before Parliament ends. What the hon. gentleman is saying is that he would like to see a program which affects Canadians-whether to offset unemployment, decrease or halt unemployment-so that all parties would have an input into that program before the fact rather than after the fact, their contribution after the fact sometimes being of a

June 23, 1972

critical nature, naturally. I cannot give that assurance. That is government policy, as the hon. gentleman knows. I think he is really pulling my leg, which he is quite adept at doing.

If he frankly asks me what the government intends to do next winter, if we are again plagued by unemployment, and whether we would embark on the same type of program we did last winter, I would have to say that at the moment I do not know. If he were to ask me, if I were to embark on the same type of program, whether I would use the same criteria I would have to say no, that we would benefit from the experience of the last winter which demonstrated tremendous success, as everybody knows, in alleviating hardship of short-term unemployment when we were able to put thousands of people through local initiative programs under the control or guidance of the Minister of Manpower and Immigration.

To summarize, I cannot give the hon. gentleman the assurance that all parties and all members would have the same type of input into a program, before the fact, as the cabinet and the government does. That is our responsibility. The hon. gentleman's responsibility, of course, is to criticize as constructively as possible, which he usually does in a very effective manner.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
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SC

René Matte

Social Credit

Mr. Rene Matte (Champlain):

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the minister.

Adult Occupational Training Act

As he mentioned a while ago that he had consultations in all provinces, I would like him to tell us the results of his discussions with his counterpart of the province of Quebec.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
Permalink
LIB

Bryce Stuart Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration)

Liberal

Hon. Bryce Mackasey (Minister of Manpower and Immigration):

Mr. Speaker, these conferences with Quebec Labour Minister Cournoyer are presently in progress. I met the minister last Friday and there will be other meetings, I believe, in the near future with his officials.

At the moment, we are exchanging letters and documents and we have made some progress from one week to the other. Finally, I am convinced that I have done my duty and, as I wished to do, I have consulted as many provinces as I could, including Quebec, on all matters concerning Canadians, whether these bills came under federal or provincial jurisdiction, and sometimes under both.

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
Permalink

Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed.


LIB

Russell Clayton Honey (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

It being five o'clock, this House stands adjourned until Monday next at 11 a.m., pursuant to special order made this day.

At 5 p.m. the House adjourned, without question put, pursuant to Standing Order.

Monday. June 26. 1972

Topic:   ADULT OCCUPATIONAL TRAINING ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS TO RECEIVE ALLOWANCES- AUTHORIZATION OF CONTRACTS WITH EMPLOYERS
Permalink

June 23, 1972